I would echo the thoughts on this one. In my experience, students don't
learn to write without being fully engaged with the writing, and full
engagement doesn't happen without enagaged reader or readers. It's much
more of a mentoring process, and that involves knowing where the
student is and helping guide them along an individualized path.
   I was struck by Scott's post about his experience in "dummy English." A
good teacher teaches students, and he was blessed with a teacher who
addressed his needs, not a "remedial" template. With our non-creidt
placements, we have come to feel we are buying time to work with the
student, not giving them anything especially different. The student
writes and teacher responds.
   I think it was Robert Lowell who said he could tell everything he knows
about writing in about nine minutes, but it might take you nine years
to learn it.
   Some things you can't learn from talking--dance, music, painting,
writing. Sex education class doesn't quite get you there. I'm sure the
list could be extended.

Craig>


 Edmond and others,
> Talking is teaching. It seems to me that’s the premise upon which
> school administrators (and probably the general public) base their
> opinion that class size is not a requirement for effective teaching.
> High quality talking, to be sure, equated as Edmond mentions, with
> professional ability. The more charismatic the teacher, the better the
> motivator, the better the results. So increase class size and give
> them a microphone. No personal intervention between teacher and
> students is necessary in this model. On the other hand, if mere
> talking is not teaching, then interaction with students both on their
> essays and in classes becomes a matter of time, and time is reduced as
> numbers grow. Actually and unfortunately, in my opinion, some teachers
> see talking as teaching too.
>
>
> Richard Betting, Prof Emeritus
> Valley City State University
> Valley City, ND
>
>
> On May 30, 2009, at 6:03 AM, Edmond Wright wrote:
>
>>> It is often put about by administrators, school inspectors, and
>>> politicians in
>> discussions concerning teacher numbers in the state schools in
>> Britain is that
>> one can teach a large class as effectively as a small one.  It comes
>> with the
>> unspoken implication that the effectiveness depends on the
>> individual teacher's
>> professional ability, and that therefore one has no cause for
>> complaint if faced
>> with 30 plus students.  It has, of course, the added advantage of
>> keeping the
>> overall cost of teachers' salaries within bounds, with a lower
>> demand on the
>> taxpayer's pocket.
>>
>> However, for secondary schools particularly, where homework is
>> insisted
>> upon, a key factor is absent from the discussion, namely the number of
>> assignments that one has to mark in 'one's own time'.  If one is
>> conscientious in one's marking (for example, to quote one criterion,
>> the
>> endeavouring to match the marking and comment specifically to the
>> student),
>> the time taken is clearly greater for the large classes.  The
>> temptation for
>> the less conscientious teacher to rush through the marking -- or to
>> set work
>> that can be quickly marked -- is always present.
>>
>> There is also no reference made to the fact that with a smaller
>> class one
>> can spend more time with individual students.
>>
>> Incidentally, it is also never mentioned in these discussions that
>> those
>> parents who send their children to private schools consider small
>> classes
>> high on their list of requirements, or that those private schools
>> that do
>> have small classes score well on the government's 'league tables' of
>> examination results.
>>
>> Do American high school English teachers have to load their car
>> boots at the
>> end of the afternoon with three or four piles of 30+ homework
>> books?  (It is
>> normal for two sets of homework to be set for each class in one
>> week, and
>> one is likely to be teaching seven or eight classes).
>>
>> Edmond
>>
>>
>> Dr. Edmond Wright
>> 3 Boathouse Court
>> Trafalgar Road
>> Cambridge
>> CB4 1DU
>> England
>>
>> Email: [log in to unmask]
>> Website: http://people.pwf.cam.ac.uk/elw33/
>> Phone [00 44] (0)1223 350256
>>
>> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
>> interface at:
>>     http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
>> and select "Join or leave the list"
>>
>> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface
> at:
>      http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
> and select "Join or leave the list"
>
> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>

To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at:
     http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
and select "Join or leave the list"

Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/