Craig,

Varying sentence starts and known-new are different concepts.   
Students should do both.  You have nicely analyzed my writing, but  
your analysis is irrelevant to my point.

My students start their sentences with "He" five times in a row.  Or  
"There is" or "It is" five times in a row.


On May 17, 2009, at 7:13 PM, Craig Hancock wrote:

> Susan,
>    I honestly didn't get the point. But let me try again to  
> describe your
> own writing. "We" brings you and I into focus. "a teacher" is the
> subject of the subordinate clause that starts sentence two. "I" is  
> main
> clause subject. "That" refers back to the previous two sentences  
> and is
> hardly "stylistic" in its choice. Do you start the second paragraph
> with "but" to prove a point? It seems a very good example of what I  
> was
> talking about earlier. "A teacher" heads that sentence, a carryover
> from the previous paragraph and very much a given. Students then come
> into play, with "they" in the subordinate clause subject slots. "A
> teacher" is again the subject of the next sentence. "I" is the subject
> of the next two sentences, and "they" (standing in for students) ends
> the paragraph. You are doing what I am talking about, making the  
> starts
> of your sentences "given", even repeating subjects ("a teacher",
> "they", "I")to build coherence. In almost every case, there is nothing
> about the subject itself that calls attention. It's "given", with
> attention on the new information to follow.
>     If you are speaking/writing about your own understandings (your
> surprise at what I believe, what you have noticed, your intentions and
> expectations), then "I" is the natural choice of subject. The "new"
> information comes in the second part of the sentences. I suspect that
> the sentences in the third paragraph are short and clipped because you
> want them to sound simple, but the "I" subjects don't pose a problem.
>    I do not vary my subjects. If anything, I work hard to keep a  
> topic in
> focus for longer stretches of text, something I'm told the computer
> assessments are designed to pick up as a sign of sophistication.
>    Inexperienced writers jump topics (and subjects) much too  
> quickly, and
> it's not unusual for them to say they have been taught to do that.
> (Notice how "Inexperienced writers" is followed by "them" and  
> "they" in
> the above compound sentence. "It's" is a dummy subject. "They" also
> starts the sentence to come.) They may be naturually coherent, but  
> have
> been advised against following those instincts when they write.
>    If you pick up a collection of award winning essays, you'll find  
> the
> point verified essay after essay. Good writers repeat. They sustain
> subjects for long stretches, building in new information as they go.
> You also seem to do that when you write, at least in your recent post.
>    I always spend time with classes looking at exactly this coherence
> building in effective texts. I underline the subjects in a  
> paragraph of
> student writing just to direct attention to how quickly a topic is
> shifting in their text. They see it right away and adjust.
>    Our advice should be based on observations about how meaning  
> happens
> and on how effective writing works.
>
> Craig
>
>
>
> On May 16, 2009, at 9:20 PM, Craig Hancock wrote:
>>> You don't help students by giving them
>>> a false description of language because you believe they aren't
>>> capable
>>> of the truth.
>>
>>
>> Maybe we don't actually disagree.  If a teacher actually told her
>> students that good writers never start sentences with the word
>> "because" or an essay that doesn't have a thesis at the end of the
>> first paragraph is wrong and an example of bad writing, then I am
>> with you.  That is false information.
>>
>> But a teacher who tells her students that they can only write in
>> pencil, or that they must show their work, or that their essay must
>> have 5 paragraphs is not giving them false information.  Should a
>> teacher clarify that the rule about "because" is only for this class
>> and that when they are older they may break this rule?  Yes.  I think
>> that probably does happen.  I think it is too much for some students
>> to process, and what they retain is just the rule itself.
>>
>>> "Vary sentence starts" would be another example of bad advice.
>>
>> I am surprise that you believe this.  I notice you vary your sentence
>> starts.  I do too.  I would only break that rule to prove a point.  I
>> hope I have proved it.  I am not sure if I have.  I hope you will let
>> me know.
>>
>> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web  
>> interface
>> at:
>>      http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
>> and select "Join or leave the list"
>>
>> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>>
>
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web  
> interface at:
>      http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
> and select "Join or leave the list"
>
> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/

To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at:
     http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
and select "Join or leave the list"

Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/