Craig,

A little more on sequence of tenses.  H&P refer to this as
"backshifting," since it normally involves changing a direct speech
present to a reported speech past, but they note that backshifting is
frequently a choice, not a rule.  They list several factors governing
the choice (pp. 157-8), of which I list two below.

a.  Reporter's attitude to the content

If I endorse or accept the original, this will somewhat favour the
deictic present version, and conversely if I recect it this will favour
backshift:

[28] i She said she doesn't need it, so I'll let Bill have it.
    ii She said there was plenty left, but there's hardly any.

b.  Indication of deictic future

[29] i She said she was leaving at the weekend.
    ii She said she's leaving at the weekend.

In ii it has to be the upcoming weekend.  In i, which weekend isn't
clear.

There are a couple of other conditions as well, but the point is that
the sequence of tenses phenomenon is not a simple rule-governed process;
it is influenced by pragmatic and attitudinal information.

Herb

-----Original Message-----
From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Craig Hancock
Sent: 2008-02-17 16:18
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Context matters - continued

Herb,
   DD follows the "sounds right" with a question about why. ("Sequence
of
tense sort of stuff?")
   I have a hard time with the implication that perfect aspect does no
work.
   Gorge Bush is President for seven years.
   George Bush was President for seven years.
   George Bush has been President for seven years.
For the most part, the third one sounds right to me (in the context of
our
current situation) because it conveys the sense of a continuing reality.
It sounds right because there's a form/meaning match. We can do that a
number of ways (He is in the final year of a second four year term),but
"taste">leaves me uncomfortable.
   I don't think you are in that camp, but most people believe grammar
is
about what's correct or what's tasteful, and that's one reason it's out
of favor.
   What does perfect aspect do? Don't we need to define that in
functional
terms?

Craig

 DD shows us that there is also a matter of taste involve in these
choices.
>  And his taste is better than mine.
>
> Herb
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar on behalf of DD
Farms
> Sent: Sun 2/17/2008 2:04 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Context matters - continued
>
> At 08:01 AM 2/17/2008, Brad Johnston wrote:
>>In context, do the five 'had's belong in or out?
>>  "Beyond containment, the major thrust of American Cold War
>> diplomatic foreign policy was to return the defeated enemies,
>> Germany and Japan, to the emerging international system as
>> full-fledged members. This task, unprecedented in respect to
>> nations on which unconditional surrender (had been) was imposed
>> less than five years earlier, made sense to a generation of
>> American leaders whose formative experience (had been) was
>> overcoming the Great Depression of the 1930s. The generation that
>> organized resistance to the Soviet Union (had) experienced Franklin
>> D. Roosevelt's New Deal, which (had) restored political stability
>> by closing the gap between American expectations and economic
>> reality. The same generation (had) prevailed in World War II,
>> fought in the name of democracy."
>
> DD: Sounds better with all the "hads." Sequence of tense sort of
stuff?
>
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