Further to Michael's post, though corpus data is clearly of importance in
deciding what might be acceptable or not, we should also consider other
criteria in deciding what to teach to various student populations. One of
those criteria might be what teachers of English as a first language find
acceptable. This is why I asked members to react to the 20 sentences
without giving too many clues as to what I was after.
Those reactions appeared to show that those who responded would not correct
the uses of the simple past where the present perfect is 'prescribed'.
I'd suggest that if the reactions are typical of most teachers, then this
would justify adopting something similar to the approach which I proposed to
the teaching of the present perfect in ESL situations.
Now, whether the same criteria of usage should be applied to teaching
English as a first language, I leave to those teachers involved to discuss.
Ron Sheen.
----- Original Message -----
From: "R. Michael Medley (ck)" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2007 2:27 PM
Subject: 'Present perfect' and Lynn Berk's book
>I am interested in this reference to _English Syntax_ by Kathleen Ward a
> couple days ago. I wonder to what extent Berk's discussion of the range
> of meanings for the perfect aspect are informed by corpus studies. A few
> years ago, I heard a wonderful presentation by Marianne Celce-Murcia in
> which she used the perfect aspect as an example and talked about how her
> own advice to teachers had changed based on actual usages of this form
> that corpus studies had revealed.
>
> I use Graeme Kennedy's _Structure and Meaning in English_ in my
> college-level grammar course. Surprisingly, Kennedy, whose consistently
> provides information derived from corpus studies, has a table on "most
> frequent uses of perfect aspect forms" (5.16 on p. 217) based on a work by
> H.V. George published in 1963!! In that study, the two usages that make
> up the majority of occurances are "past narrative" ["Before I could move,
> he had reached the door."] (28%) and "present result" ["She has bought a
> new car."] (23%). Who knows, however, what kind of a database George was
> using, how large it was, etc.
>
> Interestingly, two of the perfect usages most emphasized in ESL grammar
> textbooks are for "continuity" ["I have lived her since 1970."] and
> "experience" ["I have never tasted caviar."]--and these make up only 6%
> each of the the occurances in George's data. I suppose we find them easier
> to teach because of the particular grammatical structures involved--e.g.
> the clause with "since...."
>
> Is anyone aware of more recent corpus studies relating to the use of
> perfect aspect?
>
>
>
> Kathleen M. Ward wrote:
>> I have always liked Lynn Berk's "take" on the present perfect, as put
> forth in _English Syntax_. I have used it shamelessly when I teach the
> grammar course. She describes the various uses of the perfect:
>>
>> 1. An action or series of action began in the past and continues to (or
> through) the present moment.
>>
>> Horatia has developed many new uses for parsnips. (she's done it in
>> the past and may continue to do so.)
>>
>> 2. An event is technically over but has "current relevance."
>>
>> Horatia has dropped the pan of parsnips. (and they are all over the
>> floor)
>>
>> I think this would cover the "Sir, I've finished" usage
>>
>> 3. The "experiential perfect" in which the subject has had (or has
> not had) an experience in the past that leads up to the present,
> especially in questions in negatives.
>>
>> I haven't tried Horatia's parsnip preserves.
>>
>> 4. The "hot news" perfect, often with an exclamation mark, or in
> headlines. This has to be something in the very recent past.
>>
>> Horatia has been fired!
>>
>> This might also apply to the "Sir, I've finished" usage--I suppose
>> depending on the tone of voice.
>>
>> I have always found _English Syntax_ very good as a reference for uses
> of various forms; as a textbook it's more problematic.
>>
>> Kathleen Ward
>> UC Davis
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sep 18, 2007, at 6:10 AM, Ronald Sheen wrote:
>>
>>> Scott writes:
>>>
>>> Unless the linguist's assumption is that the speaker are not using
> these past /perfect tense
>>> expressions consciously. I would teach present perfect as indicating
> continuing or repeated or incomplete action..
>>>
>>> But how about 'Sir, I've finished.'?
>>>
>>> and
>>>
>>> how about the essential semantic feature of 'relevance to the
>>> present moment' as in the above and which explains the difference
> between the simple past in 'When I was a boy, I visited.France, Germany
> and Spain.' and the present perfect in 'So far, I have
>>> visited France, Germany and Spain.'
>>>
>>> I'll explore this issue more when I give a summary of the responses to
> my 20 sentences.
>>>
>>> Ron Sheen
>>>
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>>
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>>
>
>
> R. Michael Medley, Ph.D.
> Director Intensive English Program
> Eastern Mennonite University
> 1200 Park Road Harrisonburg, VA 22802
> Ph: 540-432-4051 Fax: 540-432-4444
> ************************************
> "Understanding and shared meaning, when it occurs, is a small miracle,
> brought about by the leap of faith that we call 'communication across
> cultures.'" --Claire Kramsch
>
>
>
> R. Michael Medley, Ph.D.
> Director Intensive English Program
> Eastern Mennonite University
> 1200 Park Road Harrisonburg, VA 22802
> Ph: 540-432-4051 Fax: 540-432-4444
> ************************************
> "Understanding and shared meaning, when it occurs, is a small miracle,
> brought about by the leap of faith that we call 'communication across
> cultures.'" --Claire Kramsch
>
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface
> at:
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>
> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
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