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From:
"Stahlke, Herbert F.W." <[log in to unmask]>
Reply To:
Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar <[log in to unmask]>
Date:
Thu, 24 Aug 2006 08:26:52 -0400
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Now relax a bit, Eduard.  Those who oppose grammar teaching, to one
degree or another, have legitimate grounds for doing so, given the way
grammar has been taught in the schools.  Let me give you one example.  A
couple of years a go, a Florida high school student and his teacher
successfully challenged a grammar question on the SAT.  The question
involved the so-called Possessive Antecedent Prohibition (PAP), which
claims that a sentence like

Einstein's work on relativity established him as the leading theoretical
physicist of his time.

is ungrammatical because "Einstein's" is possessive and therefore cannot
serve as antecedent for the pronoun "him".  A careful study of this rule
and its history, by Arnold Zwicky, established that the PAP was invented
in the mid-1940s, that grammars before that do not mention it.  It has
since crept into general handbooks like Fowler and has come to be widely
accepted even though there never was grounds for it in English grammar.
Granted, some possessive antecedents, as in 

Mary's mother's cooking gives her indigestion.

are poorly crafted and result in ambiguity or even vagueness and should
be avoided, but this is a matter of careful attention to clarity, not a
point of grammar, even though the problem can be described
grammatically.  

In the successful SAT challenge, the sentence contained a PAP, but that
was not what the test was looking for in determining what was wrong with
the sentence.  In this case, widespread misinformation won the day.

You can read Zwicky's account at
http://www-csli.stanford.edu/~zwicky/adshand.pdf#search=%22Zwicky%20poss
essive%20antecedent%22

You can read about other SAT grammar problems at
http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/001863.html

Much of what has been taught as English grammar is social, stylistic, or
simply not so.  I don't question that the social and stylistic must be
included in language arts, but they need to be taught as that, not as
rules of grammar.  

Of course, many English teachers have objected to grammar teaching also
because the pedagogy has been so bad.  This is a baby/bathwater
situation, though, and one of the things we're trying to do is improve
the pedagogy.  Improving the content is the other major part of the
effort.

Herb



-----Original Message-----
From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Eduard C. Hanganu
Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 7:28 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Scared of Grammar

Hello, all!

This is supposed to be a "grammar lovers" forum, right? But why are 
so many post on this list from people who atack grammar and state 
that teaching grammar does not make sense, and makes no difference in 
writing? The explanation appears to be quite simple: these people do 
not like grammar, do not understand grammar, and do not want to teach 
grammar. Their posts indicate that they are fighting as hard as they 
can to avoid the inevitable.

Of course, grammar cannot cause any improvement in student writing if 
those who "teach" it have no idea what grammar is and how to teach it.
What role model, or inspiration can a teacher who fumbles around and 
is in confusion about grammar could be for students? I had a few of 
such teachers and instructors, and often I had to teach them myself 
what they needed to know in order to qualify for teaching.

If I did not like grammar I would not bother to be on this list. What 
for? To read again and again about others love and I hate? Part of 
the endless harangue in the forum is caused by the situation I have 
just described, people who love grammar fighting with people who hate 
it. In the meantime, some people do the quiet and unrewarded work of 
teaching their students Standard English in spite of the attacks on 
them and the displeasure of the grammar haters. 

Eduard 

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