Geoff,

The title of my keynote address at ATEG this year was "Teaching 
writing in the context of grammar."
We're on the same wavelength.  It will be printed in the fall issue 
of th Journal.

Martha



>I may be the guilty party who has disturbed Eduard with my post 
>about the futility of conducting
>"parts of speech" hunts ["Find the (PART OF SPEECH HERE) in the 
>following sentences."]  To summarize, I have found it worse than 
>useless to try to teach this type of "grammar," so if this is what 
>Eduard is referring to, I plead guilty.
>
>However, he is dead wrong believing that those of us who dislike 
>teaching the ESL grammar that Eduard is apparently referring to are 
>"grammar haters."  I consider myself a lover of grammar almost 
>beyond measure.
>
>In fact, my contention is that if sentence construction is what is 
>meant by grammar, then grammar should not be taught in the context 
>of writing (is this still the current cliche?), but that grammar is 
>so important that writing should be taught in the context of 
>grammar.  It is grammar that allows the construction of meaning; 
>meaning is produced by the way sentences are constructed; and 
>sentences are constructed through the use of grammar.
>
>What seems difficult for Eduard to grasp is that elegant, graceful 
>sentences are not constructed by learning, for example, that the 
>word "running" can be used as a noun, an adjective, and a verb.  As 
>an ESL student, it may be helpful to learn this information.  Native 
>speakers, however, already know that "I bought a pair of run shoes" 
>is incorrect, as is "I am run to the store" as is "Run is fun" and 
>would never write a sentence such as these.  In addition, such parts 
>of speech knowledge is never required on any standardized test.
>
>So the question is not whether we are grammar lovers or haters, but 
>rather what kind of grammar do we love?
>
>Geoff Layton
>
>>From: Craig Hancock I think recent posts have been very much pro 
>>grammar, so I'm curious
>>about what you are referring to.
>
>From:  Eduard C. Hanganu
>>  > This is supposed to be a "grammar lovers" forum, right? But why are
>>>  so many post on this list from people who atack grammar and state
>>>  that teaching grammar does not make sense, and makes no difference in
>>>  writing?
>
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