Scott and Bruce,
I'd like to add something that is implicit in Bruce's explanation but I
find often needs to be clarified. The genitive/possessive distinction
is really a form/function distinction. Genitive names the grammatical
structure, whether the case ending in Latin or the periphrastic "of"
genitive or the older English -'s genitive. Bruce is, of course, right
that the -'s is an enclitic. Linguists generally omit the prefix and
just call it a clitic, but this one is enclitic because it attaches to a
preceding structure rather than to a following structure as a proclitic
would.
The difference between the periphrastic and -'s genitives in English
largely a result of their history. Old English had a case-marked
genitive, usually marked by an -s suffix although there were other
forms. There was no of-genitive. However, the case-marked genitive
could either precede or follow the noun it modified. In early Middle
English, under the influence of French and also because of the general
weakening and disappearance of suffixes, the periphrastic genitive with
"of" began to develop. I have a graph of these developments I derived
from a 1960s article by Charles Fries that I don't have a reference to
right now. I've used in History of English and in English Grammar
classes to help explain how the genitive works today and why it behaves
as it does. I can't attach the graph on the list-serv, but I'll provide
the Excel spreadsheet the graph is based on, and you're welcome to use
the Excel graphing functions to construct your own version. Here are
the numerical data. You'll need to line the columns up, of course.
What the chart shows is that the inflectional genitive after the noun it
modifies disappears almost completely by 1500AD. The periphrastic
genitive is fairly rare until the 15th c., when it begins to appear much
more frequently.
Year 900 1000 1100 1200 1250 1300 1400 1500
Acc-obj. before verb 52.50 52.70 40.00 27.60 14.30
7.00 1.87
Acc-obj. after verb 47.50 46.30 60.00 72.35 85.70
92.00 98.13
Genitive before its noun 52.40 96.10 77.40 87.40 99.10
Genitive after its noun 47.60 30.90 22.60 12.60 0.90
Periphrastic genitive 0.50 1.00 1.20 6.30 31.40 84.50
What the chart shows is that the inflectional genitive after the noun it
modifies disappears almost completely by 1500AD. The periphrastic
genitive is fairly rare until the 15th c., when it begins to appear much
more frequently.
I use this chart in conjunction with the following data set that I work
through in class, usually dividing the class into groups so they can do
some of their own analysis.
English genitives
Look at the following genitive constructions
1. Jane's house
?the house of Jane
?a house of Jane
?the house of Jane's
a house of Jane's
2. Sam's friend
?the friend of Sam
a friend of Sam
?the friend of Sam's
a friend of Sam's
3. The car's bumper
the bumper of the car
?a bumper of the car
?the bumper of the car's
?a bumper of the car's
4. My shirt
*the shirt of my
*a shirt of my
?the shirt of mine
a shirt of mine
5. My arm
*the arm of my
*an arm of my
?the arm of mine
?an arm of mine
6. The cup's contents
the contents of the cup
contents of the cup
?some contents of the cup (unstressed "some")
*the contents of the cup's
*some contents of the cup's
contents of the cup's
How many genitive constructions does English have?
How do they differ in form?
Do they differ in grammaticality? If so, how?
Do they differ in meaning? If so, how?
This data set gives us a chance to explore in some depth the function
and semantics of the genitive, especially the grammar of inalienable
possession, as in the difference between the items in 4 and 5. One of
the understandings that students arrive at fairly quickly is that
possession is only one of the possible meanings of genitive
construction.
All the best!
Herb
-----Original Message-----
From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Bruce D. Despain
Sent: 2008-01-26 12:56
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Clearer explanation of the possessive vs. genitive
constructions
Scott,
I'm sorry that I have already deleted the messages sent concerning the
above
subject. I can still attempt a fuller explanation. The idea I had was
as
follows.
The genitive in Latin is an inflection of nouns often used to represent
the
idea of possession by the thing referred to by the noun that is
inflected.
Of course, we don't "possess" friends, but this relation is also
expressed
by the genitive. The possessive in English has traditionally be taken
as an
inflection on the noun and parallel to the genitive in Latin. However,
in
English we have a paraphrastic expression using "of" to express the same
relationship. This complicates the translation of English into Latin
and
vice versa, since sometimes the one, and sometimes the other expression
seems more appropriate.
1) my friend -- possessive pronoun -- amicus meus
2) the friend of mine -- paraphrastic possessive -- amicus meus
3) a friend of mine -- double possessive -- amicus meus / unus amici mei
Similarly, if the possessive is a noun, we have:
4) the doctor's friend -- possessive noun -- amicus doctoris / doctoris
amicus
5) the friend of the doctor -- paraphrastic possessive -- doctoris
amicus /
amicus doctoris
6) a friend of the doctor's -- double possessive -- unus doctoris amici
/
unus doctoris amicus
Traditionally the English is taken as defective when compared to the
Latin,
since it cannot easily distinguish the meanings that Latin must.
I think the sentence in your original question has a phrase something
like
"the hall of his friend the doctor's." This is not a double possessive
in
the above sense; the phrase "of his friend" is completed by the
appositive
"the doctor's." The question revolved around the possessive of doctor
being
in apposition to the paraphrastic possessive (genitive) "of his friend."
The assumption seemed to be that an equally felicitous expression would
comprise both nouns being complement to the preposition: "of his friend
the
doctor." In Latin this would be "amici ejus doctoris" where the
genitive
belongs to the whole phrase. Latinizing the English phrase would
presumably
place the possessive ending on the nouns of the phrase, not just the
word
"doctor."
There seem to be good reasons for putting the possessive ending on the
phrase based on the use of the possessive ending on certain other short
phrases. A particle that occurs as part of a word, but syntactically
belongs to the phrase is called an enclitic. Hence, in the phrase, "the
queen of England's crown" the possessive ending on "England" is an
enclitic;
it logically makes the whole noun phrase of which it is a part
possessive.
We occassionally find colloquial expressions, of which I cited a few
like
"the store on the corner's front window was broken" that use this
particular
enclitic. It appears that it will not attach to words that are not
nouns.
The final suggestion was that this is the enclitic found on the phrase
in
question. It has simply attached itself to the final noun of the noun
phrase, which in this case is in apposition to the other noun. (Whether
the
noun is appositional "the doctor" or in a modifying prepositional phrase
"of
England" it still stands in an adjectival relationship to the main
noun.)
Latin places it in the same case as the noun modified, whereas English
seems
to place the whole phrase in the possessive. Even though the main noun
is
follows "of" and is a paraphrastic possessive, the appositive that
follows
also becomes possessive . This then would be attributing a sort-of
double
possessive to the phrase "of his friend the doctor's."
Let me add a footnote. The use of the term "enclitic" for a possessive
might be misunderstood to be referring to the idea that "doctor's" comes
from "doctor his" when the accent is reduced. I do not believe that
this
idea can be at all supported, though some older grammarians have
expressed
it in print.
Bruce
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2008 7:55 AM
Subject: Re: ATEG Digest - 24 Jan 2008 to 25 Jan 2008 (#2008-17)
> Bruce--
> Could you repeat your message and be a little clearer;{)>
> Scott
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of ATEG automatic digest
> system
> Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2008 12:07 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: ATEG Digest - 24 Jan 2008 to 25 Jan 2008 (#2008-17)
>
> There are 2 messages totalling 227 lines in this issue.
>
> Topics of the day:
>
> 1. genitive appositive
> 2. ATEG Digest - 23 Jan 2008 to 24 Jan 2008 (#2008-16)
>
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
interface
> at:
> http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
> and select "Join or leave the list"
>
> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 07:27:10 -0700
> From: Bruce Despain <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: genitive appositive
>
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> --____WHPEPQYSAQXEHDGESJXG____--
> --____LPHMXLZMXOMRLFKSEJCW____--
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 21:45:34 -0500
> From: Scott <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: ATEG Digest - 23 Jan 2008 to 24 Jan 2008 (#2008-16)
>
> Although I use Joo's Five clocks quite literally, I do not speak to my
> cousins (also farm born but who stayed on the farm) in the same
idiolect
> that I would use in a speech to a general audience, or in talking with
> fellow teachers at a teacher's conference, or in talking to colleagues
> at a professional congress/conference, or in giving a lecture at such
an
> event.
> It should be noted that Formal English is within the scope of most
> non-English-speaking participants in international conferences; casual
> English is not. When--and only when--I am speaking to or writing an
> article
> for
> highly literate colleagues do I proudly bear the banner of pedantry.
My
> formal idiolect in such cases is quite strict.
> In case you wonder, my email to ATEG is more casual than it would be
for
> speaking to a general audience--much as if I were speaking with
friends
> in general conversation--a good group makes you feel that way.
> Scott Catledge
>
> I wonder whether...I've fallen into the old grammar pedant's trap of
> trying
> to foist my idiolect on the universe.
>>
>>> Thanks, er, muchly,
>>> Bill Spruiell
>
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
interface
> at:
> http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
> and select "Join or leave the list"
>
> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of ATEG Digest - 24 Jan 2008 to 25 Jan 2008 (#2008-17)
> **********************************************************
>
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
interface
> at:
> http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
> and select "Join or leave the list"
>
> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>
>
To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
interface at:
http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
and select "Join or leave the list"
Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at:
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Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
|
