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I can say that the "pause = comma" that I was taught in 4th grade proved
quite efficacious. I have no problem with beginning a sentence with a
dependent clause and a comma. I explained to my students that a dependent
clause beginning a sentence was punctuated with a comma but only
nonrestrictive clauses had a comma when they followed the independent
clause.
I am waiting for the awkwardness.
Scott Catledge
-----Original Message-----
From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of ATEG automatic digest system
Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2011 12:00 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: ATEG Digest - 13 Apr 2011 (#2011-80)
There are 2 messages totalling 1319 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. Because? Awkward? Nah (2)
Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2011 22:39:38 -0500
From: Geoffrey Layton <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Because? Awkward? Nah
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Brad - I'm starting to feel as if I'm channeling you - CAN WE PLEASE HAVE S=
OME AWKWARDNESS! You've given us the well-turned phrase!
Geoff Layton
=20
Date: Wed=2C 13 Apr 2011 20:10:38 -0700
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Because? Awkward? Nah
To: [log in to unmask]
Because of you=2C there's a song in my heart
Because of you=2C our romance had its start
Because of you=2C the sun will shine
The moon and stars will say you're mine
Forever and never to part
I only live for your love and your kiss
It's paradise to be near you like this
Because of you=2C my life is now worthwhile
And I can smile=2C because of you.
=20
From: Geoffrey Layton <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Wed=2C April 13=2C 2011 9:19:03 PM
Subject: Re: Punctuation Question - NOW AWKWARDNESS?
This entire thread has become a scene out of a Kafka novel! What is missing=
here are some examples of awkwardness. Does anybody (except Crystal and me=
) think that beginning a sentence with "because" can be awkward (NOT incorr=
ect - just awkward)? Nobody seems to want to acknowledge this point - or=2C=
as Bill does below - wants to dismiss it as a condition affecting all intr=
oductory dependent clauses. My own "automatic tagging program for awkwardne=
ss" tells me that "because" clauses cause unique problems=2C as either an i=
ntroduction or elsewhere in the sentence. My question is now as it has been=
from the start of this frustrating conversation - does anybody have any ex=
amples of what might be called awkward "because" constructions=2C or now=2C=
since the list has apparently been expanded=2C any other "awkward" depende=
nt clause constructions? Perhaps we should change the thread to a discussio=
n of awkwardness - how is created=2C how can it be corrected=2C and how can=
it be avoided? Given the paucity of information so far=2C I'll go for intu=
itive judgments as nothing else seems to be working.
Geoff Layton
Date: Wed=2C 13 Apr 2011 23:12:08 +0000
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Punctuation Question
To: [log in to unmask]
Crystal:
=93It can create an awkwardly structured sentence if not done correctly=94 =
applies to pretty much any construction=2C I=92d think=3B it ends up being =
circular. The issue is whether initial because-clauses are more frequently =
awkward than non-initial ones. I suspect they=92re not=2C although getting =
some kind of outside measurement of that would be a fun headache (=93Anybod=
y got an automatic tagging program for awkwardness? Anybody?=94). Given th=
e danger of confirmation bias in this kind of endeavor=2C one thing we prob=
ably should not rely on is intuitive judgments about how often-misused a co=
nstruction=2C or item=2C is.=20
--- Bill Spruiell
From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:[log in to unmask]
OHIO.EDU] On Behalf Of Crystal Edmonds
Sent: Wednesday=2C April 13=2C 2011 4:10 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Punctuation Question
=20
Geoff and TJ=2C=20
I am not discouraging students to begin a sentence with the conjunction "be=
cause." It is not incorrect but it can create a awkwardly structured sente=
nce if not done correctly. =20
=20
C. Edmonds=2C Chair
Associate in Arts
English and Humanities
Robeson Community College
PO Box 1420
Lumberton=2C NC 28359
(910) 272-3700 ext. 3362
(910) 272-3328 (fax)
[log in to unmask]
RCC 4 R.E.A.L. Reading Engages Active Learning=20
A Quality Enhancement Plan at Robeson Community College
>>> On 4/13/2011 at 2:17 PM=2C in message <[log in to unmask]>=2C =
Craig Hancock <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
Geoff=2C
Now I'm confused. Here's what I replied to:
TJ - Not to quibble=2C but I think the emphasis was on "awkward=2C" not "in=
correct=2C" and starting a sentence with because can be considered awkward =
depending on the useage.
Geoff Layton
I thought you were saying that "because" might be discouraged because i=
t is awkward to begin sentences that way. Now you are asking US for exampl=
es to back up your point. Or am I missing something?
I have a friend who says it's a miracle that we ever understand each oth=
er=2C the possibilities for misunderstanding being as great as they are. He=
re we are as living proof.
Any grammatical construction=2C including sentences starting with "becau=
se" as the head of a subordinate clause=2C will be awkward if they don't fi=
t the discourse purposes.=20
I would be interested to see examples. My earlier ones were an attemp=
t to ADD the fact that starting with these clauses is often well motivated.=
=20
Craig
=20
=20
On 4/13/2011 1:31 PM=2C Geoffrey Layton wrote:=20
Craig=2C=20
All I'm asking for is to "give awkwardness a chance"! When is it awkward to=
start a sentence with because?
=20
Geoff
=20
Starting a sentence with because can be awkward. Agreed.
On 4/13/2011 12:32 PM=2C Geoffrey Layton wrote:=20
Craig -
=20
The reverse of what is equally true? What are you arguing here - that the r=
hetorical meaning of a sentence can change depending on whether "because" s=
tarts the sentence? That is totally off the point. Re-read my post - nowhe=
re did I argue against starting a sentence with "because" - I know the rhet=
orical choices involved. But you merely buttress this well-established poin=
t. That wasn't the point. Instead=2C go back in your treasure trove and com=
e up with examples of what Edmonds was suggesting - namely=2C that there ar=
e awkward examples of starting sentences with "because" - you have many mor=
e resources than I do! Instead of flaying a dead horse=2C let's advance the=
conversation!=20
=20
You point out that "awkwardness depends on context" - this is what I was tr=
ying to point out=2C and perhaps what Edmonds was trying to point out - let=
's address that point! When is it awkward to start a sentence with "because=
"?
Geoff Layton
=20
Date: Wed=2C 13 Apr 2011 12:14:35 -0400
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Punctuation Question
To: [log in to unmask]
Geoff=2C and all=2C=20
The reverse is equally true. Consider "Because you were late=2C we lost=
everything" as opposed to "We lost everything because you were late." Sinc=
e losing everything seems a more important piece of information=2C the firs=
t seems smoother (more congruent with meaning) to my ear. It also allows fo=
r two pints of emphasis.=20
Introductory word groups of all kinds (anything other than the main cla=
use grammatical subject) are recognized as marked theme in systemic functio=
nal grammar. They are intonationally marked in speech. They function as a s=
tepping off point for the mesage structure of the sentence. It is not a tri=
vial choice. Awkwardness would depend on context=2C not on some arbitrary f=
ormal rule.=20
Unfortunately=2C English teachers tend to rely on hearing as an alterna=
tive to grammar. Saying you should put commas where you hear the pause is a=
bout as useful as "a sentence is a complete thought=2C" dangerous because i=
t oversimplifies. Intonation is a grammatical system=2C and paying attentio=
n to it leads us into the heart of syntax--more appropriately=2C into the h=
eart of the grammar-meaning connection.=20
We don't just punctuate sentences--we construct them. The punctuation sh=
ould work in harmony with those choices. Most students don't get very far o=
n hearing alone. It is also one thing to know how you would say it=2C anoth=
er to anticipate how a reader would hear it on the basis of what you have p=
rovided (or failed to provide) as clues.=20
Craig=20
=20
On 4/13/2011 11:49 AM=2C Geoffrey Layton wrote:=20
TJ - Not to quibble=2C but I think the emphasis was on "awkward=2C" not "in=
correct=2C" and starting a sentence with because can be considered awkward =
depending on the useage.
Geoff Layton
=20
Date: Wed=2C 13 Apr 2011 10:38:37 -0500
From: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Punctuation Question
To: [log in to unmask]
Crystal=2C=20
Your encouragement of your students is a matter of choice=2C but I don't se=
e that beginning a
sentence with "Because" is incorrect.
=20
tj
On Wednesday 04/13/2011 at 10:01 am=2C Crystal Edmonds wrote:=20
The subordinating conjunction "because" is used to link the dependent claus=
e to the independent clause. I encourage my students to place such subordin=
ate clauses at the end of the sentence so that there are no errors in comma=
usage. However=2C many students want to begin a sentence with "because". W=
hile it is not incorrect=2C the sentence structure does appear awkward. =20
=20
Using "for" illustrates students' sentence variety. That is important for m=
e. =20
=20
=20
=20
C. Edmonds=2C Chair
Associate in Arts
English and Humanities
Robeson Community College
PO Box 1420
Lumberton=2C NC 28359
(910) 272-3700 ext. 3362
(910) 272-3328 (fax)
[log in to unmask]
RCC 4 R.E.A.L. Reading Engages Active Learning=20
A Quality Enhancement Plan at Robeson Community College
>>> On 4/13/2011 at 8:52 AM=2C in message <700D77BB392AE543B5B4455C8DB89E3A=
[log in to unmask]>=2C "Katz=2C Seth" <[log in to unmask]> =
wrote:
Traditional lists of coordinating conjunctions included "for" (hence the "F=
" in the acronym "FANBOYS" for remembering the list of coordinating conjunc=
tions)=3B but it seems to me that the use of "for" as a coordinating conjun=
ction in English has largely been succeeded by the use of "because."
I find I'm not sure here what the distinction is between a coordinating con=
junction and a subordinating conjunction. Help?
Dr. Seth Katz=20
Assistant Professor
Department of English
Bradley University
________________________________
From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar on behalf of T. J. Ray
Sent: Wed 4/13/2011 6:16 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Punctuation Question
I believe you're right in thinking he feels this is a coordinate conjunctio=
n. My understanding is that=20
"because" clauses are dependent and hence should not be preceded with a com=
ma. I just
wanted a number of opinions before I bring it to the committee's attention=
=2C folks who evidently
don't see a problem with it as no one had marked any of these before I saw =
the MSS.
Thanks for your time.
On Wednesday 04/13/2011 at 5:43 am=2C "Dixon=2C Jack" wrote:=20
Focusing on the obvious=2C I suspect the writer believes that "because" fun=
ctions as a coordinating conjunction rather than a subordinating. Does the =
student punctuate most subordinating clauses that follow the independent cl=
ause this way=2C or do he make this mistake with "because" only?
I seem to remember that Martha Kolln in _Rhetorical Grammar_ addresses the =
few instances when terminal subord. clauses are set off with commas.=20
________________________________________
From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar To join or leave this LI=
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Brad - I'm starting to feel as if I'm channeling you - CAN WE PLEASE HAVE S=
OME AWKWARDNESS! You've given us the well-turned phrase!<BR><BR>Geoff Layto=
n<BR><BR><BR> =3B<BR>
<HR id=3DstopSpelling>
Date: Wed=2C 13 Apr 2011 20:10:38 -0700<BR>From: [log in to unmask]<BR>Su=
bject: Because? Awkward? Nah<BR>To: [log in to unmask]<BR><BR>
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<DIV><SPAN class=3D"ecxgoog_qs-tidbit ecxgoog_qs-tidbit-0">Because of you=
=2C there's a song in my heart</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D"ecxgoog_qs-tidbit ecxgoog_qs-tidbit-0">Because of you=
=2C our romance had its start</SPAN><BR><SPAN class=3D"ecxgoog_qs-tidbit ec=
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<DIV><SPAN class=3D"ecxgoog_qs-tidbit ecxgoog_qs-tidbit-0">The moon and sta=
rs will say you're</SPAN> mine<BR>Forever and never to part<BR>I only live =
for your love and your kiss</DIV>
<DIV>It's paradise to be near you like this<BR>Because of you=2C my life is=
now worthwhile</DIV>
<DIV>And I can smile=2C because of you.<BR> =3B<BR></DIV>
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12pt">
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<HR SIZE=3D1>
<B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> Geoffrey Layton <=
[log in to unmask]>=3B<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:<=
/SPAN></B> [log in to unmask]<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold"=
>Sent:</SPAN></B> Wed=2C April 13=2C 2011 9:19:03 PM<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"F=
ONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: Punctuation Question - NOW AWKWAR=
DNESS?<BR></FONT><BR>
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This entire thread has become a scene out of a Kafka novel! What is missing=
here are some examples of awkwardness. Does anybody =3B(except Crystal=
and me) think that =3Bbeginning a sentence with "because" can be awkwa=
rd (<STRONG><EM><U>NOT</U></EM></STRONG> incorrect - just awkward)? Nobody =
seems to want to acknowledge this point - or=2C as Bill does below - wants =
to dismiss it as a condition affecting all introductory dependent clauses. =
My own "automatic tagging program for awkwardness" tells me that "because" =
clauses cause unique problems=2C =3Bas either an =3Bintroduction or=
elsewhere in the sentence. My question is now as it has been from the star=
t of this frustrating conversation - does anybody have any examples of what=
might be called awkward "because" =3Bconstructions=2C =3Bor now=2C=
since the list has apparently been expanded=2C any other "awkward" =3B=
dependent clause constructions? Perhaps we should change the thread to a di=
scussion of awkwardness - how is created=2C how can it be corrected=2C and =
how can it be avoided? Given the paucity of information so far=2C I'll go f=
or intuitive judgments as nothing else seems to be working.<BR><BR>Geoff La=
yton<BR><BR>
<HR id=3DecxstopSpelling>
<BR>Date: Wed=2C 13 Apr 2011 23:12:08 +0000<BR>From: [log in to unmask]<BR>=
Subject: Re: Punctuation Question<BR>To: [log in to unmask]<BR><BR><B=
R>
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<P class=3DecxMsoNormal><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'sans-serif'=3B COLOR: =
#1f497d=3B FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Crystal:</SPAN></P>
<P class=3DecxMsoNormal><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'sans-serif'=3B COLOR: =
#1f497d=3B FONT-SIZE: 11pt">=93It can create an awkwardly structured senten=
ce if not done correctly=94 applies to pretty much any construction=2C I=92=
d think=3B it ends up being circular. The issue is whether initial because-=
clauses are more <I>frequently</I> awkward than non-initial ones. I suspect=
they=92re not=2C although getting some kind of outside measurement of that=
would be a fun headache (=93Anybody got an automatic tagging program for a=
wkwardness? Anybody?=94).  =3BGiven the danger of confirmation bias in =
this kind of endeavor=2C one thing we probably should not rely on is intuit=
ive judgments about how often-misused a construction=2C or item=2C is. </SP=
AN></P>
<P class=3DecxMsoNormal><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'sans-serif'=3B COLOR: =
#1f497d=3B FONT-SIZE: 11pt">--- Bill Spruiell</SPAN></P>
<DIV>
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<P style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt" class=3DecxMsoNormal><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT=
-FAMILY: 'sans-serif'=3B COLOR: windowtext=3B FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</SPAN>=
</B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'sans-serif'=3B COLOR: windowtext=3B FONT-S=
IZE: 10pt"> Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:ATEG@LISTS=
ERV.MUOHIO.EDU] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Crystal Edmonds<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesd=
ay=2C April 13=2C 2011 4:10 PM<BR><B>To:</B> [log in to unmask]<BR><B=
>Subject:</B> Re: Punctuation Question</SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<P class=3DecxMsoNormal> =3B</P>
<DIV>
<P style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt" class=3DecxMsoNormal><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FA=
MILY: 'sans-serif'=3B FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Geoff and TJ=2C </SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt=3B MARGIN-LEFT: 0in=3B MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in" c=
lass=3DecxMsoNormal><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'sans-serif'=3B FONT-SIZE: =
10pt">I am not discouraging students to begin a sentence with the conjuncti=
on "because." =3B It is not incorrect but it can create a awkwardly str=
uctured sentence if not done correctly. =3B </SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt" class=3DecxMsoNormal><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FA=
MILY: 'sans-serif'=3B FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> =3B</SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt" class=3DecxMsoNormal><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FA=
MILY: 'sans-serif'=3B FONT-SIZE: 10pt">C. Edmonds=2C Chair<BR>Associate in =
Arts<BR>English and Humanities<BR>Robeson Community College<BR>PO Box 1420<=
BR>Lumberton=2C NC 28359<BR>(910) 272-3700 ext. 3362<BR>(910) 272-3328 (fax=
)<BR><A href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]" rel=3Dnofollow>cedmonds@robeso=
n.edu</A></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt" class=3DecxMsoNormal><B><SPAN style=3D"COLO=
R: #365f91">RCC 4 R.E.A.L.</SPAN></B> =3B <I>Reading Engages Active Lea=
rning</I> </P>
<P style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt" class=3DecxMsoNormal>A Quality Enhancement =
Plan at Robeson Community College</P></DIV>
<P style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt" class=3DecxMsoNormal><SPAN style=3D"FONT-FA=
MILY: 'sans-serif'=3B FONT-SIZE: 10pt">>=3B>=3B>=3B On 4/13/2011 at 2=
:17 PM=2C in message &[log in to unmask]>=3B=2C Craig Hanco=
ck &[log in to unmask]>=3B wrote:</SPAN></P></DIV>
<TABLE style=3D"BACKGROUND: #f3f3f3=3B MARGIN-LEFT: 11.25pt" class=3DecxMso=
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T: 0.75pt=3B PADDING-TOP: 0.75pt">
<DIV style=3D"BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none=3B BORDER-LEFT: #050505 1pt solid=
=3B PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in=3B PADDING-LEFT: 5pt=3B PADDING-RIGHT: 0in=3B BORDE=
R-TOP: medium none=3B BORDER-RIGHT: medium none=3B PADDING-TOP: 0in">
<P style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt" class=3DecxMsoNormal>Geoff=2C<BR> =3B&n=
bsp=3B =3B Now I'm confused. Here's what I replied to:<BR><BR>TJ - Not =
to quibble=2C but I think =3Bthe emphasis was on "awkward=2C" not "inco=
rrect=2C" and starting a sentence with because can be considered awkward de=
pending on the useage.<BR><BR>Geoff Layton<BR><BR> =3B =3B =3B =
I thought you were saying that "because" might be discouraged because it is=
awkward to begin sentences that way. =3B Now you are asking US for exa=
mples to back up your point. Or am I missing something?<BR> =3B =3B=
I have a friend who says it's a miracle that we ever understand each other=
=2C the possibilities for misunderstanding being as great as they are. Here=
we are as living proof.<BR> =3B =3B Any grammatical construction=
=2C including sentences starting with "because" as the head of a subordinat=
e clause=2C will be awkward if they don't fit the discourse purposes. <BR><=
BR> =3B =3B =3B =3B I would be interested to see =3B ex=
amples. My earlier ones were an attempt to ADD the fact that starting with =
these clauses is often well motivated. <BR><BR>Craig<BR><BR> =3B =
=3B =3B <BR> =3B =3B =3B =3B =3B <BR><BR><BR><BR><B=
R><BR>On 4/13/2011 1:31 PM=2C Geoffrey Layton wrote: </P>
<P style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt" class=3DecxMsoNormal>Craig=2C <BR><BR>All I=
'm asking for is to "give awkwardness a chance"! When is it awkward to star=
t a sentence with because?<BR> =3B<BR>Geoff<BR> =3B</P>
<P style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt" class=3DecxMsoNormal> =3B =3B<EM><B=
> Starting a sentence with because can be awkward. Agreed</B></EM>.<BR><BR>=
On 4/13/2011 12:32 PM=2C Geoffrey Layton wrote: </P>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
<P style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt" class=3DecxMsoNormal>Craig -<BR> =3B<BR=
>The reverse of what is equally true? What are you arguing here - that =
=3Bthe rhetorical meaning of a sentence can change depending on whether "be=
cause" starts the sentence? That is totally off the point. =3B =3BR=
e-read my post - nowhere did I argue against starting a sentence with "beca=
use" - I know the rhetorical choices involved. But you merely buttress this=
well-established point. =3BThat wasn't the point. =3BInstead=2C go=
 =3Bback in your treasure trove and come up with examples of what Edmon=
ds was suggesting - namely=2C that there are awkward examples of starting s=
entences with "because" - you have many more resources than I do! Instead o=
f flaying a dead horse=2C let's advance the conversation! <BR> =3B<BR>Y=
ou point out that =3B"awkwardness depends on context" - this is what I =
was trying to point out=2C and perhaps what Edmonds was trying to point out=
 =3B- let's address that point! When is it awkward to start a sentence =
with "because"?<BR><BR>Geoff Layton<BR><BR><BR> =3B</P>
<DIV style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: center=3B MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt" class=3DecxMsoNorma=
l align=3Dcenter>
<HR id=3DecxstopSpelling align=3Dcenter SIZE=3D2 width=3D"100%">
</DIV>
<P style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt" class=3DecxMsoNormal>Date: Wed=2C 13 Apr 20=
11 12:14:35 -0400<BR>From: <A href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]" rel=3Dnofo=
llow>[log in to unmask]</A><BR>Subject: Re: Punctuation Question<BR>To: <A =
href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]" rel=3Dnofollow>[log in to unmask]
O.EDU</A><BR><BR>Geoff=2C and all=2C <BR> =3B =3B =3B The rever=
se is equally true. Consider "Because you were late=2C we lost everything" =
as opposed to "We lost everything because you were late." Since losing ever=
ything seems a more important piece of information=2C the first seems smoot=
her (more congruent with meaning) to my ear. It also allows for two pints o=
f emphasis. <BR> =3B =3B =3B Introductory word groups of all ki=
nds (anything other than the main clause grammatical subject) are recognize=
d as <B>marked theme</B> in systemic functional grammar. They are intonatio=
nally marked in speech. They function as a stepping off point for the mesag=
e structure of the sentence. It is not a trivial choice. Awkwardness would =
depend on context=2C not on some arbitrary formal rule. <BR> =3B =
=3B =3B Unfortunately=2C English teachers tend to rely on hearing as an=
alternative to grammar. Saying you should put commas where you hear the pa=
use is about as useful as "a sentence is a complete thought=2C" dangerous b=
ecause it oversimplifies. Intonation is a grammatical system=2C and paying =
attention to it leads us into the heart of syntax--more appropriately=2C in=
to the heart of the grammar-meaning connection. <BR> =3B =3B We don=
't just punctuate sentences--we construct them. The punctuation should work=
in harmony with those choices. Most students don't get very far on hearing=
alone. It is also one thing to know how you would say it=2C another to ant=
icipate how a reader would hear it on the basis of what you have provided (=
or failed to provide) as clues. <BR><BR>Craig <BR> =3B =3B <BR><BR>=
On 4/13/2011 11:49 AM=2C Geoffrey Layton wrote: </P>
<P style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt" class=3DecxMsoNormal>TJ - Not to quibble=2C=
but I think =3Bthe emphasis was on "awkward=2C" not "incorrect=2C" and=
starting a sentence with because can be considered awkward depending on th=
e useage.<BR><BR>Geoff Layton<BR><BR><BR> =3B</P>
<DIV style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: center=3B MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt" class=3DecxMsoNorma=
l align=3Dcenter>
<HR id=3DecxstopSpelling align=3Dcenter SIZE=3D2 width=3D"100%">
</DIV>
<P style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt" class=3DecxMsoNormal>Date: Wed=2C 13 Apr 20=
11 10:38:37 -0500<BR>From: <A href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]" rel=3Dnofol=
low>[log in to unmask]</A><BR>Subject: Re: Punctuation Question<BR>To: <A hr=
ef=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]" rel=3Dnofollow>[log in to unmask]
EDU</A><BR><BR>Crystal=2C </P>
<DIV>
<P style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt" class=3DecxMsoNormal>Your encouragement of =
your students is a matter of choice=2C but I don't see that beginning a</P>=
</DIV>
<DIV>
<P style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt" class=3DecxMsoNormal>sentence with "Because=
" is incorrect.</P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt" class=3DecxMsoNormal> =3B</P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt" class=3DecxMsoNormal>tj<BR><BR><BR>On Wedne=
sday 04/13/2011 at 10:01 am=2C Crystal Edmonds wrote: </P>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt" class=3DecxMsoNormal>The subordinating conj=
unction "because" is used to link the dependent clause to the independent c=
lause. I encourage my students to place such subordinate clauses at the end=
of the sentence so that there are no errors in comma usage. However=2C man=
y students want to begin a sentence with "because". While it is not incorre=
ct=2C the sentence structure does appear awkward. =3B </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt" class=3DecxMsoNormal> =3B</P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt" class=3DecxMsoNormal>Using "for" illustrate=
s students' sentence variety. That is important for me. =3B </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt" class=3DecxMsoNormal> =3B</P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt" class=3DecxMsoNormal> =3B</P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt" class=3DecxMsoNormal> =3B</P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt" class=3DecxMsoNormal>C. Edmonds=2C Chair<BR=
>Associate in Arts<BR>English and Humanities<BR>Robeson Community College<B=
R>PO Box 1420<BR>Lumberton=2C NC 28359<BR>(910) 272-3700 ext. 3362<BR>(910)=
272-3328 (fax)<BR><A href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]" rel=3Dnofollow>c=
[log in to unmask]</A></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=3Decxmsonormal><B><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: #365f91">RCC 4 R.E.A.L.</S=
PAN></B> =3B <I>Reading Engages Active Learning</I> </P>
<P class=3Decxmsonormal>A Quality Enhancement Plan at Robeson Community Col=
lege</P></DIV>
<P style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt" class=3DecxMsoNormal>>=3B>=3B>=3B On =
4/13/2011 at 8:52 AM=2C in message <A href=3D"mailto:700D77BB392AE543B5B445=
[log in to unmask]" rel=3Dnofollow><=3B700D77BB392AE=
[log in to unmask]>=3B</A>=2C "Katz=2C Seth=
" <A href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]" rel=3Dnofollow><=3Bseth@BUMA=
IL.BRADLEY.EDU>=3B</A> wrote:</P></DIV>
<TABLE style=3D"BACKGROUND: #f3f3f3" class=3DecxMsoNormalTable border=3D0 c=
ellPadding=3D0>
<TBODY>
<TR>
<TD style=3D"PADDING-BOTTOM: 0.75pt=3B PADDING-LEFT: 0.75pt=3B PADDING-RIGH=
T: 0.75pt=3B PADDING-TOP: 0.75pt">
<DIV>
<P style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt" class=3DecxMsoNormal>Traditional lists of c=
oordinating conjunctions included "for" (hence the "F" in the acronym "FANB=
OYS" for remembering the list of coordinating conjunctions)=3B but it seems=
to me that the use of "for" as a coordinating conjunction in English has l=
argely been succeeded by the use of "because."<BR><BR>I find I'm not sure h=
ere what the distinction is between a coordinating conjunction and a subord=
inating conjunction. Help?<BR><BR>Dr. Seth Katz <BR>Assistant Professor<BR>=
Department of English<BR>Bradley University<BR><BR>________________________=
________<BR><BR>From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar on behal=
f of T. J. Ray<BR>Sent: Wed 4/13/2011 6:16 AM<BR>To: <A href=3D"mailto:ATEG=
@LISTSERV.MUOHIO.EDU" rel=3Dnofollow>[log in to unmask]</A><BR>Subjec=
t: Re: Punctuation Question<BR><BR><BR>I believe you're right in thinking h=
e feels this is a coordinate conjunction. =3B My understanding is that =
<BR>"because" clauses are dependent and hence should not be preceded with a=
comma. =3B I just<BR>wanted a number of opinions before I bring it to =
the committee's attention=2C folks who evidently<BR>don't see a problem wit=
h it as no one had marked any of these before I saw the MSS.<BR><BR>Thanks =
for your time.<BR><BR><BR><BR>On Wednesday 04/13/2011 at 5:43 am=2C "Dixon=
=2C Jack" wrote: <BR><BR>Focusing on the obvious=2C I suspect the writer be=
lieves that "because" functions as a coordinating conjunction rather than a=
subordinating. Does the student punctuate most subordinating clauses that =
follow the independent clause this way=2C or do he make this mistake with "=
because" only?<BR><BR>I seem to remember that Martha Kolln in _Rhetorical G=
rammar_ addresses the few instances when terminal subord. clauses are set o=
ff with commas. <BR><BR>________________________________________<BR>From: A=
ssembly for the Teaching of English Grammar To join or leave this LISTSERV =
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OTE>
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