Janet,
If "embarrassments" is not a perfectly good form of the word, then I am
surprised it has "gotten by" so many editors in both newspapers and
published books (even Oxford University Press). The link below should
take you to the 37 instances of the word in the British National Corpus
(100 million words). I am sure I don't understand all the properties of
the category "limited count nouns" as mentioned by Scott, but it seems
that "embarrassments" instead of "instances of embarrassment" is a
legitimate possibility. Perhaps there is some semantic nuance in the use
of "embarrassments" in the contexts cited here that would distinguish it
from those instances when we would prefer to use "embarrassment" in the
singular. Looking at the data, what do you think?
http://sara.natcorp.ox.ac.uk/cgi-bin/saraWeb?qy=embarrassments
Castilleja, Janet wrote:
> OK - maybe not "three embarrassments" but what about a sentence lie "the
> embarrassments mounted up"? 'Embarrassment' seems like a count noun
> here.
>
> I forgot what it is called when the perfect tense - 'I have finished' -
> is realized with a form of be - 'I have finished.' Can anyone remind
> me? I tried looking it up in Quirk et al, and the Cambridge, Longman &
> Oxford grammars, but I couldn' t find it.
>
> Thanks
>
> Janet Castilleja
> Heritage University
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Scott
> Sent: Jueves, 20 de Septiembre de 2007 10:27 p.m.
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: ATEG Digest - 19 Sep 2007 to 20 Sep 2007 (#2007-116)
>
> English has mass nouns, count nouns, and limited count nouns.
> Limited count nouns can be plural but not enumerated without a counter.
> Not three embarrassments but three instances of embarrassment.
> People is another limited count noun that is often incorrectly
> quantified.
> When I hear someone say three people. I ask if there were three persons
> and
> two left the room, how many persons would be left; puzzled, they say
> "one
> person. Then I ask if there were three people and two left the room,
> how
> many people would be left.
> Guts is a limited count noun in its normal meaning. His guts spilled
> out
> onto the floor--all five of them;{)>
>
> My 1982 doctoral dissertation, entitled "Discrepant Subcategorization of
> nouns in Spanish and English" dealt specifically with matrices
> identifying
> mass nouns, count nouns, and limited count nouns in Spanish and
> English--specifically where the languages do not agree.
>
> Note too, that translations of foreign phrases often, but not always,
> follow
> the rules of the original language.
>
> 3. question on countable and uncountable nouns (3)
>
>
> I would be grateful for your thoughts as to whether or not embarrassment
> is a countable or uncountable noun or both. In the phrase "to protect
> the State Department from political embarrassment" it seems to me to be
> an uncountable noun; yet in the phrase "an embarrassment of riches,"
> embarrassment follows the property of a countable noun, i.e., it can be
> modified by the indefinite article.=20
>
> =20
>
> Can one say I faced several embarrassments as opposed to I faced several
> kinds of embarrassment? i.e., embarrassment as a count noun is an
> instance of embarrassment whereas embarrassment as a noncount noun is
> the state of being embarrassed? And is there a reliable resource for
> checking the status of common nouns?
>
> =20
>
> Thanks for your thoughts-
>
> =20
>
> Natalie Gerber
>
> SUNY Fredonia
>
> =20
>
> =20
>
> =20
>
>
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
> interface
> at:
> http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
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> <p class=3DMsoNormal>Hello:<o:p></o:p></p>
>
> <p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
>
> <p class=3DMsoNormal>I would be grateful for your thoughts as to whether
> =
> or not <i>embarrassment</i>
> is a countable or uncountable noun or both. In the phrase “to =
> protect the
> State Department from political embarrassment” it seems to me to =
> be an
> uncountable noun; yet in the phrase “an embarrassment of =
> riches,”
> embarrassment follows the property of a countable noun, i.e., it can be
> modified by the indefinite article. <o:p></o:p></p>
>
> <p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
>
> <p class=3DMsoNormal>Can one say <i>I faced several embarrassments</i> =
> as opposed
> to <i>I faced several kinds of embarrassment</i>? i.e., <i>embarrassment
> =
> </i>as
> a count noun is an instance of embarrassment whereas =
> <i>embarrassment</i> as a
> noncount noun is the state of being embarrassed? And is there a reliable
> =
> resource
> for checking the status of common nouns?<o:p></o:p></p>
>
> <p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
>
> <p class=3DMsoNormal>Thanks for your thoughts—<o:p></o:p></p>
>
> <p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
>
> <p class=3DMsoNormal>Natalie Gerber<o:p></o:p></p>
>
> <p class=3DMsoNormal>SUNY Fredonia<o:p></o:p></p>
>
> <p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
>
> <p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
>
> <p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
>
> </div>
>
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>
> </html>
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
> interface
> at:
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> and select "Join or leave the list"
> <p>
> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>
> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C7FBBB.8354DBF0--
>
> -----------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 15:49:10 -0400
> From: "Spruiell, William C" <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: question on countable and uncountable nouns
>
> This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>
> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C7FBBF.51F9DA16
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> Natalie,
>
> =20
>
> Your "state" vs. "instance" distinction sounds right on the money to me.
> The word is usable in either sense, e.g. "Senator Pouncetrifle faced the
> latest in a string of embarrassments today as his former finance advisor
> admitted changing the status of some of his campaign funds" vs. "Senator
> Pouncetrifle has had to deal with a lot of embarrassment recently."=20
>
> =20
>
> ---- Bill Spruiell
>
> =20
>
> From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Natalie Gerber
> Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 3:22 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: question on countable and uncountable nouns
>
> =20
>
> Hello:
>
> =20
>
> I would be grateful for your thoughts as to whether or not embarrassment
> is a countable or uncountable noun or both. In the phrase "to protect
> the State Department from political embarrassment" it seems to me to be
> an uncountable noun; yet in the phrase "an embarrassment of riches,"
> embarrassment follows the property of a countable noun, i.e., it can be
> modified by the indefinite article.=20
>
> =20
>
> Can one say I faced several embarrassments as opposed to I faced several
> kinds of embarrassment? i.e., embarrassment as a count noun is an
> instance of embarrassment whereas embarrassment as a noncount noun is
> the state of being embarrassed? And is there a reliable resource for
> checking the status of common nouns?
>
> =20
>
> Thanks for your thoughts-
>
> =20
>
> Natalie Gerber
>
> SUNY Fredonia
>
> =20
>
> =20
>
> =20
>
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
> interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select
> "Join or leave the list"=20
>
> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/=20
>
>
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
> interface
> at:
> http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
> and select "Join or leave the list"
>
> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>
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>
> <div class=3DSection1>
>
> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
> style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Natalie,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
>
> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
> style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
>
> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Your =
> “state” vs. “instance”
> distinction sounds right on the money to me. The word is usable in =
> either sense,
> e.g. “Senator Pouncetrifle faced the latest in a string of =
> embarrassments today
> as his former finance advisor admitted changing the status of some of =
> his
> campaign funds” vs. “Senator Pouncetrifle has had to deal =
> with a lot of embarrassment
> recently.” <o:p></o:p></span></p>
>
> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
> style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
>
> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>---- Bill =
> Spruiell<o:p></o:p></span></p>
>
> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
> style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
>
> <div>
>
> <div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt =
> 0in 0in 0in'>
>
> <p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span
>>=
> </b><span
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Assembly =
> for the
> Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:[log in to unmask]] <b>On =
> Behalf Of </b>Natalie
> Gerber<br>
> <b>Sent:</b> Thursday, September 20, 2007 3:22 PM<br>
> <b>To:</b> [log in to unmask]<br>
> <b>Subject:</b> question on countable and uncountable =
> nouns<o:p></o:p></span></p>
>
> </div>
>
> </div>
>
> <p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
>
> <p class=3DMsoNormal>Hello:<o:p></o:p></p>
>
> <p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
>
> <p class=3DMsoNormal>I would be grateful for your thoughts as to whether
> =
> or not <i>embarrassment</i>
> is a countable or uncountable noun or both. In the phrase “to =
> protect the State
> Department from political embarrassment” it seems to me to be an =
> uncountable
> noun; yet in the phrase “an embarrassment of riches,” =
> embarrassment follows the
> property of a countable noun, i.e., it can be modified by the indefinite
> article. <o:p></o:p></p>
>
> <p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
>
> <p class=3DMsoNormal>Can one say <i>I faced several embarrassments</i> =
> as opposed
> to <i>I faced several kinds of embarrassment</i>? i.e., <i>embarrassment
> =
> </i>as
> a count noun is an instance of embarrassment whereas =
> <i>embarrassment</i> as a
> noncount noun is the state of being embarrassed? And is there a reliable
> resource for checking the status of common nouns?<o:p></o:p></p>
>
> <p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
>
> <p class=3DMsoNormal>Thanks for your thoughts—<o:p></o:p></p>
>
> <p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
>
> <p class=3DMsoNormal>Natalie Gerber<o:p></o:p></p>
>
> <p class=3DMsoNormal>SUNY Fredonia<o:p></o:p></p>
>
> <p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
>
> <p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
>
> <p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
>
> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times
> =
> New Roman","serif"'>To
> join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface
> =
> at:
> http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or =
> leave
> the list" <o:p></o:p></span></p>
>
> <p>Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ <o:p></o:p></p>
>
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>
> </html>
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
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>
> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C7FBBF.51F9DA16--
>
> -----------------------------
>
> Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 15:51:41 -0400
> From: "Veit, Richard" <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: question on countable and uncountable nouns
>
> This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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> Clearly both, as your examples demonstrate. Sometimes we use it as a
> mass noun, sometimes as a count noun.
>
> =20
>
> Dick Veit
>
> ________________________________
>
> Richard Veit
> Department of English
> University of North Carolina Wilmington
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Natalie Gerber
> Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 3:22 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: question on countable and uncountable nouns
>
> =20
>
> Hello:
>
> =20
>
> I would be grateful for your thoughts as to whether or not embarrassment
> is a countable or uncountable noun or both. In the phrase "to protect
> the State Department from political embarrassment" it seems to me to be
> an uncountable noun; yet in the phrase "an embarrassment of riches,"
> embarrassment follows the property of a countable noun, i.e., it can be
> modified by the indefinite article.=20
>
> =20
>
> Can one say I faced several embarrassments as opposed to I faced several
> kinds of embarrassment? i.e., embarrassment as a count noun is an
> instance of embarrassment whereas embarrassment as a noncount noun is
> the state of being embarrassed? And is there a reliable resource for
> checking the status of common nouns?
>
> =20
>
> Thanks for your thoughts-
>
> =20
>
> Natalie Gerber
>
> SUNY Fredonia
>
> =20
>
> =20
>
> =20
>
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
> interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select
> "Join or leave the list"=20
>
> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
> interface
> at:
> http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
> and select "Join or leave the list"
>
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> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
> style=3D'font-size:
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Clearly both, as your examples =
> demonstrate.
> Sometimes we use it as a mass noun, sometimes as a count =
> noun.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
> style=3D'font-size:
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
>
> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
> style=3D'font-size:
> 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Dick =
> Veit<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
> <div>
>
> <p class=3DMsoNormal =
> style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
> size=3D2 color=3Dteal face=3DArial><span =
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
> color:teal'>________________________________</span></font><font =
> color=3Dnavy><span
> style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
> <p class=3DMsoNormal =
> style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
> size=3D2 color=3Dteal face=3DArial><span =
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
> color:teal'>Richard Veit<br>
> Department of English<br>
> </span></font><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
> Arial'><ns1:PlaceType w:insAuthor=3D"UNCW" =
> w:insDate=3D"2007-09-20T15:49:00Z"
> w:endInsAuthor=3D"UNCW" =
> w:endInsDate=3D"2007-09-20T15:49:00Z"><st1:PlaceType
> w:st=3D"on"><font color=3Dteal><span =
> style=3D'color:teal'>University</span></font></st1:PlaceType></ns1:Place
> T=
> ype><font
> color=3Dteal><span style=3D'color:teal'> of </span></font><ns1:PlaceName
> w:insAuthor=3D"UNCW" w:insDate=3D"2007-09-20T15:49:00Z" =
> w:endInsAuthor=3D"UNCW"
> w:endInsDate=3D"2007-09-20T15:49:00Z"><st1:PlaceName w:st=3D"on"><font
> =
> color=3Dteal><span
> style=3D'color:teal'>North =
> Carolina</span></font></st1:PlaceName></ns1:PlaceName><font
> color=3Dteal><span style=3D'color:teal'> </span></font><ns1:City =
> w:insAuthor=3D"UNCW"
> w:insDate=3D"2007-09-20T15:49:00Z" w:endInsAuthor=3D"UNCW"
> w:endInsDate=3D"2007-09-20T15:49:00Z"><ns1:place w:insAuthor=3D"UNCW"
> w:insDate=3D"2007-09-20T15:49:00Z" w:endInsAuthor=3D"UNCW"
> w:endInsDate=3D"2007-09-20T15:49:00Z"><st1:City w:st=3D"on"><st1:place
> =
> w:st=3D"on"><font
> color=3Dteal><span =
> style=3D'color:teal'>Wilmington</span></font></st1:place></st1:City></ns
> 1=
> :place></ns1:City></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
>
> </div>
>
> <div>
>
> <div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font
> =
> size=3D3
> face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
> style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman"'>
>
> <hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabindex=3D-1>
>
> </span></font></div>
>
> <p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
> font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font =
> size=3D2
> face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> =
> <st1:PersonName
> w:st=3D"on">Assembly for the Teaching of English =
> Grammar</st1:PersonName>
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>On
> =
> Behalf
> Of </span></b>Natalie Gerber<br>
> <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Thursday, September
> =
> 20, 2007
> 3:22 PM<br>
> <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> =
> [log in to unmask]<br>
> <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> question on =
> countable and
> uncountable nouns</span></font><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New =
> Roman"><span
> style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
> Roman"'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
> </div>
>
> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span =
> style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
>
> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span =
> style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>Hello:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span =
> style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
>
> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span =
> style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>I
> would be grateful for your thoughts as to whether or not <i><span
> style=3D'font-style:italic'>embarrassment</span></i> is a countable or
> uncountable noun or both. In the phrase “to protect the State =
> Department
> from political embarrassment” it seems to me to be an uncountable
> =
> noun;
> yet in the phrase “an embarrassment of riches,” =
> embarrassment
> follows the property of a countable noun, i.e., it can be modified by =
> the
> indefinite article. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span =
> style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
>
> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span =
> style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>Can
> one say <i><span style=3D'font-style:italic'>I faced several =
> embarrassments</span></i>
> as opposed to <i><span style=3D'font-style:italic'>I faced several kinds
> =
> of
> embarrassment</span></i>? i.e., <i><span =
> style=3D'font-style:italic'>embarrassment
> </span></i>as a count noun is an instance of embarrassment whereas =
> <i><span
> style=3D'font-style:italic'>embarrassment</span></i> as a noncount noun
> =
> is the
> state of being embarrassed? And is there a reliable resource for =
> checking the
> status of common nouns?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span =
> style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
>
> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span =
> style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>Thanks
> for your thoughts—<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span =
> style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
>
> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span =
> style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>Natalie
> Gerber<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span =
> style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>SUNY
> Fredonia<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span =
> style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
>
> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span =
> style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
>
> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span =
> style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
>
> </div>
>
> </body>
>
> </html>
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web =
> interface at:
> http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
> and select "Join or leave the list"
> <p>
> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
> interface
> at:
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> and select "Join or leave the list"
> <p>
> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C7FBBF.AA914BCA--
>
> -----------------------------
>
> End of ATEG Digest - 19 Sep 2007 to 20 Sep 2007 (#2007-116)
> ***********************************************************
>
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
> interface at:
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>
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> at:
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> and select "Join or leave the list"
>
> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>
R. Michael Medley, Ph.D.
Director Intensive English Program
Eastern Mennonite University
1200 Park Road Harrisonburg, VA 22802
Ph: 540-432-4051 Fax: 540-432-4444
************************************
"Understanding and shared meaning, when it occurs, is a small miracle,
brought about by the leap of faith that we call 'communication across
cultures.'" --Claire Kramsch
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