English has mass nouns, count nouns, and limited count nouns.
Limited count nouns can be plural but not enumerated without a counter.
Not three embarrassments but three instances of embarrassment.
People is another limited count noun that is often incorrectly quantified.
When I hear someone say three people. I ask if there were three persons and
two left the room, how many persons would be left; puzzled, they say "one
person. Then I ask if there were three people and two left the room, how
many people would be left.
Guts is a limited count noun in its normal meaning. His guts spilled out
onto the floor--all five of them;{)>
My 1982 doctoral dissertation, entitled "Discrepant Subcategorization of
nouns in Spanish and English" dealt specifically with matrices identifying
mass nouns, count nouns, and limited count nouns in Spanish and
English--specifically where the languages do not agree.
Note too, that translations of foreign phrases often, but not always, follow
the rules of the original language.
3. question on countable and uncountable nouns (3)
I would be grateful for your thoughts as to whether or not embarrassment
is a countable or uncountable noun or both. In the phrase "to protect
the State Department from political embarrassment" it seems to me to be
an uncountable noun; yet in the phrase "an embarrassment of riches,"
embarrassment follows the property of a countable noun, i.e., it can be
modified by the indefinite article.=20
=20
Can one say I faced several embarrassments as opposed to I faced several
kinds of embarrassment? i.e., embarrassment as a count noun is an
instance of embarrassment whereas embarrassment as a noncount noun is
the state of being embarrassed? And is there a reliable resource for
checking the status of common nouns?
=20
Thanks for your thoughts-
=20
Natalie Gerber
SUNY Fredonia
=20
=20
=20
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<p class=3DMsoNormal>Hello:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>I would be grateful for your thoughts as to whether =
or not <i>embarrassment</i>
is a countable or uncountable noun or both. In the phrase “to =
protect the
State Department from political embarrassment” it seems to me to =
be an
uncountable noun; yet in the phrase “an embarrassment of =
riches,”
embarrassment follows the property of a countable noun, i.e., it can be
modified by the indefinite article. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>Can one say <i>I faced several embarrassments</i> =
as opposed
to <i>I faced several kinds of embarrassment</i>? i.e., <i>embarrassment =
</i>as
a count noun is an instance of embarrassment whereas =
<i>embarrassment</i> as a
noncount noun is the state of being embarrassed? And is there a reliable =
resource
for checking the status of common nouns?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>Thanks for your thoughts—<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>Natalie Gerber<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>SUNY Fredonia<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
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------_=_NextPart_001_01C7FBBB.8354DBF0--
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 15:49:10 -0400
From: "Spruiell, William C" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: question on countable and uncountable nouns
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Natalie,
=20
Your "state" vs. "instance" distinction sounds right on the money to me.
The word is usable in either sense, e.g. "Senator Pouncetrifle faced the
latest in a string of embarrassments today as his former finance advisor
admitted changing the status of some of his campaign funds" vs. "Senator
Pouncetrifle has had to deal with a lot of embarrassment recently."=20
=20
---- Bill Spruiell
=20
From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Natalie Gerber
Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 3:22 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: question on countable and uncountable nouns
=20
Hello:
=20
I would be grateful for your thoughts as to whether or not embarrassment
is a countable or uncountable noun or both. In the phrase "to protect
the State Department from political embarrassment" it seems to me to be
an uncountable noun; yet in the phrase "an embarrassment of riches,"
embarrassment follows the property of a countable noun, i.e., it can be
modified by the indefinite article.=20
=20
Can one say I faced several embarrassments as opposed to I faced several
kinds of embarrassment? i.e., embarrassment as a count noun is an
instance of embarrassment whereas embarrassment as a noncount noun is
the state of being embarrassed? And is there a reliable resource for
checking the status of common nouns?
=20
Thanks for your thoughts-
=20
Natalie Gerber
SUNY Fredonia
=20
=20
=20
To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select
"Join or leave the list"=20
Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/=20
To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface
at:
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<body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vlink=3Dpurple>
<div class=3DSection1>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Natalie,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Your =
“state” vs. “instance”
distinction sounds right on the money to me. The word is usable in =
either sense,
e.g. “Senator Pouncetrifle faced the latest in a string of =
embarrassments today
as his former finance advisor admitted changing the status of some of =
his
campaign funds” vs. “Senator Pouncetrifle has had to deal =
with a lot of embarrassment
recently.” <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>---- Bill =
Spruiell<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt =
0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Assembly =
for the
Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:[log in to unmask]] <b>On =
Behalf Of </b>Natalie
Gerber<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, September 20, 2007 3:22 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> [log in to unmask]<br>
<b>Subject:</b> question on countable and uncountable =
nouns<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>Hello:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>I would be grateful for your thoughts as to whether =
or not <i>embarrassment</i>
is a countable or uncountable noun or both. In the phrase “to =
protect the State
Department from political embarrassment” it seems to me to be an =
uncountable
noun; yet in the phrase “an embarrassment of riches,” =
embarrassment follows the
property of a countable noun, i.e., it can be modified by the indefinite
article. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>Can one say <i>I faced several embarrassments</i> =
as opposed
to <i>I faced several kinds of embarrassment</i>? i.e., <i>embarrassment =
</i>as
a count noun is an instance of embarrassment whereas =
<i>embarrassment</i> as a
noncount noun is the state of being embarrassed? And is there a reliable
resource for checking the status of common nouns?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>Thanks for your thoughts—<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>Natalie Gerber<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>SUNY Fredonia<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times =
New Roman","serif"'>To
join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface =
at:
http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or =
leave
the list" <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p>Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ <o:p></o:p></p>
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 15:51:41 -0400
From: "Veit, Richard" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: question on countable and uncountable nouns
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Clearly both, as your examples demonstrate. Sometimes we use it as a
mass noun, sometimes as a count noun.
=20
Dick Veit
________________________________
Richard Veit
Department of English
University of North Carolina Wilmington
________________________________
From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Natalie Gerber
Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 3:22 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: question on countable and uncountable nouns
=20
Hello:
=20
I would be grateful for your thoughts as to whether or not embarrassment
is a countable or uncountable noun or both. In the phrase "to protect
the State Department from political embarrassment" it seems to me to be
an uncountable noun; yet in the phrase "an embarrassment of riches,"
embarrassment follows the property of a countable noun, i.e., it can be
modified by the indefinite article.=20
=20
Can one say I faced several embarrassments as opposed to I faced several
kinds of embarrassment? i.e., embarrassment as a count noun is an
instance of embarrassment whereas embarrassment as a noncount noun is
the state of being embarrassed? And is there a reliable resource for
checking the status of common nouns?
=20
Thanks for your thoughts-
=20
Natalie Gerber
SUNY Fredonia
=20
=20
=20
To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web
interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select
"Join or leave the list"=20
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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Clearly both, as your examples =
demonstrate.
Sometimes we use it as a mass noun, sometimes as a count =
noun.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Dick =
Veit<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3D2 color=3Dteal face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:teal'>________________________________</span></font><font =
color=3Dnavy><span
style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font
size=3D2 color=3Dteal face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:teal'>Richard Veit<br>
Department of English<br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Arial'><ns1:PlaceType w:insAuthor=3D"UNCW" =
w:insDate=3D"2007-09-20T15:49:00Z"
w:endInsAuthor=3D"UNCW" =
w:endInsDate=3D"2007-09-20T15:49:00Z"><st1:PlaceType
w:st=3D"on"><font color=3Dteal><span =
style=3D'color:teal'>University</span></font></st1:PlaceType></ns1:PlaceT=
ype><font
color=3Dteal><span style=3D'color:teal'> of </span></font><ns1:PlaceName
w:insAuthor=3D"UNCW" w:insDate=3D"2007-09-20T15:49:00Z" =
w:endInsAuthor=3D"UNCW"
w:endInsDate=3D"2007-09-20T15:49:00Z"><st1:PlaceName w:st=3D"on"><font =
color=3Dteal><span
style=3D'color:teal'>North =
Carolina</span></font></st1:PlaceName></ns1:PlaceName><font
color=3Dteal><span style=3D'color:teal'> </span></font><ns1:City =
w:insAuthor=3D"UNCW"
w:insDate=3D"2007-09-20T15:49:00Z" w:endInsAuthor=3D"UNCW"
w:endInsDate=3D"2007-09-20T15:49:00Z"><ns1:place w:insAuthor=3D"UNCW"
w:insDate=3D"2007-09-20T15:49:00Z" w:endInsAuthor=3D"UNCW"
w:endInsDate=3D"2007-09-20T15:49:00Z"><st1:City w:st=3D"on"><st1:place =
w:st=3D"on"><font
color=3Dteal><span =
style=3D'color:teal'>Wilmington</span></font></st1:place></st1:City></ns1=
:place></ns1:City></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font =
size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman"'>
<hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabindex=3D-1>
</span></font></div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font =
size=3D2
face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> =
<st1:PersonName
w:st=3D"on">Assembly for the Teaching of English =
Grammar</st1:PersonName>
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>On =
Behalf
Of </span></b>Natalie Gerber<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Thursday, September =
20, 2007
3:22 PM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> =
[log in to unmask]<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> question on =
countable and
uncountable nouns</span></font><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman"'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>Hello:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>I
would be grateful for your thoughts as to whether or not <i><span
style=3D'font-style:italic'>embarrassment</span></i> is a countable or
uncountable noun or both. In the phrase “to protect the State =
Department
from political embarrassment” it seems to me to be an uncountable =
noun;
yet in the phrase “an embarrassment of riches,” =
embarrassment
follows the property of a countable noun, i.e., it can be modified by =
the
indefinite article. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>Can
one say <i><span style=3D'font-style:italic'>I faced several =
embarrassments</span></i>
as opposed to <i><span style=3D'font-style:italic'>I faced several kinds =
of
embarrassment</span></i>? i.e., <i><span =
style=3D'font-style:italic'>embarrassment
</span></i>as a count noun is an instance of embarrassment whereas =
<i><span
style=3D'font-style:italic'>embarrassment</span></i> as a noncount noun =
is the
state of being embarrassed? And is there a reliable resource for =
checking the
status of common nouns?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>Thanks
for your thoughts—<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>Natalie
Gerber<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>SUNY
Fredonia<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>
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End of ATEG Digest - 19 Sep 2007 to 20 Sep 2007 (#2007-116)
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