> Johanna Rubba wrote:

>A general question for ATEG subscribers and for the SSS committee is being
>raised here: should K-12 grammar instruction be more-narrowly focused on
>'things native speakers have trouble with in learning the formal
>standard variety of English' or should it be broader, 'to give speakers of
>English a relatively thorough understanding of how English works'?
>
>The more-narrow focus may be a practical, more-attainable aim in the short
>term. What do other listers think of the value of the broader scope? One
>value I see in it is that it would give students a basis for considering
>and forming opinions on such issues as language legislation and Ebonics in
>the schools.

Is the more narrow focus more practical?  I wonder, and for a couple of
reasons.  Probably I've been in California too long, but _are_ there K-12
classes out there that consist entirely of native speakers?  Such a
situation no longer seems to come up around here!

Second, I wonder if just "teaching the problems" is do-able.  How do you
just "teach the problems" without using the vocabulary and methods of
analysis that can be learned only by engaging in a more thorough study of
how English works?  I've seen explanations-Noguchi comes to mind-of how to
get students to correct S-V agreemement errors without their knowing how to
find the subject.  Excuse me, but the method was so complex that I thought
it would be simpler to go ahead, introduce the dreaded grammatical
terminology, and show them how to find that subject!

Do people in other fields spend a much time as we do in trying to make sure
that kids never have to do anything they might find boring or complex? Have
the chemistry teachers stopped requiring familiarity with the periodic
table?

I'm perfectly willing to be convinced that learning how to parse does not
lead automatially and immediately to better sentence structure.  It's not
an innoculation, for heaven's sake.  But, without being able to parse (a
word I'm using with the full knowledge that it makes me sound like my
eighth-grade nun), can students ever learn to correct their own and others'
work with anything more convincing than "it sounds wrong to me"?