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Peter,
Not Frank Noguchi, but Rei Noguchi.
The quick answer is that the coordinating conjunctions do not
subordinate what they introduce and therefore any finite clause they are
in front of is a potential sentence. This happens quite a bit, in fact,
in the work of good writers, in part because /and /and /but/ and /or/
and /so/ and /yet/ often mark larger transitions than those between
simple clauses.
I think if you used Rei's frame test ("I believe that..." or "I
understand the fact that...") you would get a false reading. But the
test was never intended to be more than one way to feel out what a
sentence is all about. If we have a deeper understanding, the frame test
becomes irrelevant.
My definition for "independent clause" is that it does not have a
grammatical role within another clause. This gets us away from "complete
thought," which is misleading in other ways. In good writing, sentences
overlap in their meanings.
I hope that makes some sense.
Craig
On 10/11/2010 12:03 PM, Peter Adams wrote:
> Craig, you write that "I met Mary in Seattle" is, at least potentially, a sentence. And you point out that putting "before" in front of it downgrades it to something subordinate.
>
> I'm wondering about putting an "and" in front. Is "And I met Mary in Seattle" a potential sentence? Does it pass Frank Noguchi's frame test:
>
>
> They refused to believe the idea that and I met Mary in Seatlle?
>
> Peter
>
> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at:
> http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
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>
> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/
>
>
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Peter,<br>
Not Frank Noguchi, but Rei Noguchi.<br>
The quick answer is that the coordinating conjunctions do not
subordinate what they introduce and therefore any finite clause they
are in front of is a potential sentence. This happens quite a bit,
in fact, in the work of good writers, in part because <i>and </i>and
<i>but</i> and <i>or</i> and <i>so</i> and <i>yet</i> often mark
larger transitions than those between simple clauses. <br>
I think if you used Rei's frame test ("I believe that..." or "I
understand the fact that...") you would get a false reading. But the
test was never intended to be more than one way to feel out what a
sentence is all about. If we have a deeper understanding, the frame
test becomes irrelevant. <br>
My definition for "independent clause" is that it does not have
a grammatical role within another clause. This gets us away from
"complete thought," which is misleading in other ways. In good
writing, sentences overlap in their meanings. <br>
I hope that makes some sense. <br>
<br>
Craig<br>
<br>
On 10/11/2010 12:03 PM, Peter Adams wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:[log in to unmask]"
type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Craig, you write that "I met Mary in Seattle" is, at least potentially, a sentence. And you point out that putting "before" in front of it downgrades it to something subordinate.
I'm wondering about putting an "and" in front. Is "And I met Mary in Seattle" a potential sentence? Does it pass Frank Noguchi's frame test:
They refused to believe the idea that and I met Mary in Seatlle?
Peter
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