Rebecca:

Johanna speaks from the transformational/generative perspective which 
*assumes* that *native* speakers of a language know the *grammar* of 
that language. Unfortunately, this theory has never been supported 
with evidence. There is evidence, though, that children never exposed 
to language will never speak a human language. Language, as cognitive 
linguistics affirms is learned, and not innate. I am a native speaker 
of a language (though not English) and I had no idea what a noun was 
before I was taught in school about nouns. The G-T and MP grammars 
should be allowed to fade into the past ( and they are fading)because 
there is no evidence for the claims Chomsky and his disciples made 
about language. That that the G-T and MP theoreticians are wrong is 
clearly demonstrated in the book "The 'Language Instinct' Debate" 
written by Geoffrey Sampson. Van Valin and LaPolla also show in their 
book "Syntax," that Chomsky's language theory is *deductive,* not 
inductive, that is, it is theory and nothing more, which is what 
Chomksy himself claimed.  
 
Is is annoying to hear again and again statements about the grammar 
knowledge which the "natives" possess when nothing of the kind could 
be substantiated with evidence from research. The truth is that 
children should not be assumed or expected to KNOW language, but 
should be TAUGHT language from the time they are born, and especially 
from the time they step into the schools. As you state, knowledge of 
grammar must be inculcated into the minds of the students so that 
when they go to college they will not look like children who grew up 
in to jungle and have never been language socialized.

Eduard 




On Sat, 2 Sep 2006, Rebecca Watson wrote...

>
>On Sep 1, 2006, at 11:54 PM, Johanna Rubba wrote:
>
>> Native speakers don't need to be told where a noun is in a  
>> sentence; if they're taught the noun signals (my emphasis).
>
>
>I tutored reading at my sons' public schools in both Minneapolis 
and  
>Lafayette, LA.  These kids have no idea what a noun is.  And they 
are  
>totally at a loss speaking, writing, and reading Standard English.   
>Standard English is hard to read if you don't speak the language!    
>Itty-bitties need grammar instruction on a daily basis, 5 minutes a  
>day, from the minute they walk into a classroom.  That instruction  
>becomes imbedded and natural and then more and more complex  
>instruction is presented as their intellect develops.  Then college/ 
>university students would be prepared!  You guys could teach lofty  
>stuff that college is SUPPOSED to teach, rather than being remedial  
>teachers.
>
>Rebecca Watson
>
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