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December 2000

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Subject:
subordinate clauses as main clauses
From:
"Richard Veit, UNCW English Department" <[log in to unmask]>
Reply To:
Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar <[log in to unmask]>
Date:
Sat, 2 Dec 2000 11:26:15 -0500
Content-Type:
text/plain
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text/plain (46 lines) 
I certainly agree with Ed Vavra's position that subordinate clauses are
components of the main clause, inasmuch as they function as subjects (see 1
below), direct objects (see 2), adverbials (3), and so on, of the main clause.

1. That he will have good luck is doubtful.
2. Both said I was wrong.
3. Both were stunned when I made my claim.

Apparently Ed and his colleagues were assuming different definitions of
"main clause," but it seems odd to stipulate a definition of "clause" in
which the subject of the clause would not be a component of the clause.

Dick Veit
UNCW

At 03:54 AM 12/02/2000 -0500, you wrote:
>Like Bill McCleary, I wish Herb luck, but I doubt that he will have it.
>As long-time members of this list already know, there is little
>agreement about what should be taught even in ATEG. I got into a
>discussion of grammar with two of my colleagues, one in English comp,
>the other in Tech Writing. Both were stunned when I said that a main
>clause includes its subordinate clause(s). Both said I was wrong. When I
>asked them what they would do with the sentence "What he knows is what
>he has seen." they told me that neither "What he knows" nor "what he has
>seen" is a clause.
>      Of course, if the survey I took in Seattle still holds,
>approximately half the members of ATEG do not believe that subordinate
>clauses are part(s) of main clauses, and when I have asked for
>discussion of this question on this list, my question has been ignored.
>If this group cannot agree on what (specifically) should be taught, I
>don't see how we can expect people who are not very interested in
>grammar to listen to us.
>Ed V.
>
>To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at:
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>
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