Geoffrey:

If I am reading you well, your claim is that, due to insurmountable 
social pressures exercised on students in public schools and in the 
society in general, teaching Standard English in public education is 
impossible no matter what method or instructional approach teachers 
use to perform this task. If this is the case, you might want to ask 
yourself the question: If the situation is hopeless, are the goals of 
this forum viable, considering that the main aim of this group is to 
bring back grammar to public school, and in doing so to restore the 
role of Standard English in public education?


Eduard 


 


On Sun, 3 Sep 2006, Geoffrey Layton wrote...

>I'm not familiar with the article in question.  However, I am quite 
familiar 
>with the problem - namely, the use of so-called "Ebonics" (or more 
formally, 
>AAVE).  I have been teaching in inner-city Chicago schools for 
several 
>years, and the problem of teaching students standard written English 
is real 
>and difficult.  However, Eduard's solution is totally disconnected 
from 
>reality.
>
>First, the analogy that he draws between AAVE speakers and non-
native 
>speakers is valid only if the non-native speakers to whom he refers 
are 
>surrounded outside the school environment entirely with native 
speakers who 
>do not value standard written English.  The problem then becomes 
analogous 
>and is being replicated in the Hispanic community.  Students leave 
school 
>and return to an environment where the community speaks only the 
native 
>langage.  In addition, students are not welcome if they try to speak 
>so-called standard English.  At my school, for example, black 
students would 
>become "oreos" or worse if they tried speaking the "king's English" 
in the 
>hood.
>
>Therefore, the "immersion" that Eduard advocates is not possible.  
To assist 
>in "code-switching" activities (although for some reason, I really 
dislike 
>this term), I find it profitable to have students reflect on the 
differences 
>and similarities in between AAVE and standard written English.  For 
example, 
>an extra credit assignment I have for this year is to analyze why 
the verb 
>forms "to diss" and "to conversate" should be accepted into standard 
written 
>English. They have very useful connotations that cannot be expressed 
by 
>current standard verb forms (in fact, the Wall Street Journal 
used "diss" 
>recently!).
>
>Other assignments include investigating how Ebonics (don't ever use 
the term 
>AAVE with black students!) is following many of the developments 
that 
>standard English has taken over the past several hundred years.  For 
>example, Ebonics simplifies verb forms - why, for example, does the 
third 
>person singular need a different form?  What's wrong with I say, You 
say, He 
>say, We say, You say, They say?  Or, to cite another example, there 
is no 
>reason to have many linking verbs.  Why not have the linking verb be 
implied 
>in sentences such as "She cool!" or "He smart!"  The subject is 
implied in 
>imperative sentences - why not have the verb implied?
>
>By investigating language, the students are better able to "code 
switch" - 
>and isn't that all we're asking of non-native speakers - to switch 
codes?
>
>Geoff Layton
>
>PS:  Recognizing the difficulties of black students is not the same 
as "dual 
>language" education that Eduard seems to be referring to.  I haven't 
heard 
>anyone suggest this as a solution to the problem.  For example, I 
certainly 
>am not proficient in Ebonics, even though I "be chillin' at the 
crib" this 
>weekend.
>
>PPS:  Another problem with the "immersion" analogy between black 
>Ebonic-speaking students and non-native speakers is that of 
motivation.  For 
>the reasons mentioned above, many black students do not want to 
speak the 
>"king's English" because they do not want to be perceived as "acting 
white," 
>whereas non-native speakers are highly motivated to speak "standard" 
>English.
>
>
>>From: "Eduard C. Hanganu" <[log in to unmask]>
>>Reply-To: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar              
>><[log in to unmask]>
>>To: [log in to unmask]
>>Subject: Re: Discrimination?
>>Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2006 16:18:56 -0500
>>
>>Johanna:
>>
>>One article is much too little to prove that code-switching in 
school
>>would solve the African-American language problem. But let's assume
>>that African-Americans are discriminated in school because teachers
>>do not switch code between Ebonics and Standard English. Wouldn't it
>>be also true that all children who do not speak Standard English as
>>their first language or dialect are also discriminated when teachers
>>do not switch code between the students'L1 of first dialect to L2 or
>>second dialect?
>>
>>What would happen in New York City if a "code-switch" proposal would
>>be implemented? There are at least 50-70 ethnic groups which speak
>>their own languages or dialects. Should the New York City board of
>>education provide teachers who would be able to switch code with all
>>the students who speak a different language or dialect in the 
various
>>schools of the city?
>>
>>And what would happen if a teacher had in his or her classroom three
>>or four students who spoke a different foreign language? Should the
>>teachers be obligated to speak those same languages in order not
>>to "discriminate" the students?
>>
>>We are running into an insurmountable logistics problem. The code
>>switching suggestion cannot be applied because of lack of resources
>>and because it would turn the public schools into a Babel Tower. The
>>only viable solution is Standard English immersion.
>>
>>Eduard
>>
>>
>>
>>On Sun, 3 Sep 2006, Johanna Rubba wrote...
>>
>> >This article appeared in the Chronicle of Higher Education. You 
have
>>to
>> >log in with a password to read it, so I guess I will violate
>>copyright
>> >and just copy the text into this message.
>> >
>> >Friday, September 1, 2006
>> >
>> >Brief Intervention Improves Achievement of Students Subject to
>>Negative
>> >Stereotyping, Study Finds
>> >
>> >By RICHARD MONASTERSKY
>> >In a striking experiment about stereotypes and academic 
achievement,
>> >African-American seventh graders performed better in school months
>> >after they were asked to spend 15 minutes thinking about their
>>identity
>> >and values.
>> >
>> >The results of the study, published in today's issue of the 
journal
>> >Science, demonstrate how racial stereotypes can adversely affect
>> >minority students and how simple interventions can partly 
counteract
>> >those stresses, researchers said on Thursday.
>> >
>> >"It shows that their academic performance is tied to these
>>pressures,
>> >and it gives us a better understanding of what's going on with
>>minority
>> >students," said Claude M. Steele, a professor of psychology at
>>Stanford
>> >University and director of its Center for Advanced Study in the
>> >Behavioral Sciences, who was not involved in the new study.
>> >
>> >The experiment was led by Geoffrey L. Cohen, an associate 
professor
>>of
>> >psychology at the University of Colorado at Boulder, and Julio
>>Garcia,
>> >an associate research scientist at Yale University. The team 
worked
>> >with 243 seventh graders in social-studies classes at a suburban
>>school
>> >in the Northeast, the location of which the researchers did not
>> >identify because they are continuing their work there. The
>>researchers
>> >split the students into two groups and gave them different writing
>> >exercises. Students in one group were asked to read a list of
>>values,
>> >pick the most important, and then describe why they made their
>>choice.
>> >Students in a control group read the same list of values, selected
>>the
>> >least important, and then described why their choice might be
>>important
>> >to another person.
>> >The students completed the assignment in class at the beginning of
>>the
>> >fall term, and the researchers followed the progress of those
>>students.
>> >At the end of the year, African-American students who had written
>>about
>> >their most important values had better grades than did African-
>>American
>> >students in the control group. The difference was about one-third 
of
>>a
>> >grade point on a four-point scale, where an A is a 4 and a D is a 
1.
>> >
>> >White students who wrote about their most important values did not
>>show
>> >any significant difference than white students in the control 
group.
>> >The researchers were so surprised by the results that they 
repeated
>>the
>> >experiment, waiting a year to get more data, Mr. Cohen said on
>> >Thursday. "We wanted to make sure it was replicable and reliable,"
>>he
>> >said.
>> >
>> >The study fits into a body of research about the stresses caused 
by
>> >negative stereotypes that are attributed to a group. That effect,
>>known
>> >as stereotype threat, was first described by Mr. Steele and his
>> >colleagues. The effect happens when a person is concerned -- 
either
>> >consciously or subconsciously -- about being a member of a group
>>that
>> >is perceived as being inferior in some way. Researchers have
>> >demonstrated the effect in minority groups, women, and nonminority
>>men,
>> >in settings as diverse as academic tests and miniature golf.
>> >
>> >The new study differs from most previous work because Mr. Cohen 
and
>>Mr.
>> >Garcia tested their intervention in the field, rather than in a
>> >laboratory setting in a university.
>> >
>> >In the classes where the recent study was conducted, the 
achievement
>> >gap between African-American and white students was three-quarters
>>of a
>> >grade point, so the experimental intervention reversed 40 percent 
of
>> >the gap, the researchers report. "These results suggest that the
>>racial
>> >achievement gap, a major social concern in the United States, 
could
>>be
>> >ameliorated by the use of timely and targeted social psychology
>> >interventions," Mr. Cohen and his colleagues conclude in their 
paper.
>> >
>> >Mr. Steele said the intervention had an effect because it
>>accomplished
>> >what good teachers routinely do: affirm students' sense of
>>themselves
>> >and convey that they are valued. The results of the simple
>>assignment
>> >are "dramatically encouraging," he said. But more research is
>>needed,
>> >he said, before teachers could start implementing those strategies
>>in
>> >the classroom.
>> >
>> >Mr. Cohen agreed, saying he would not yet recommend trying to
>> >incorporate such interventions into schools. "This is not a silver
>> >bullet," he said. "We don't know how far this goes, whether it
>> >generalizes to urban settings or predominantly minority settings."
>> >In a commentary also in Science, Timothy D. Wilson, a professor of
>> >psychology at the University of Virginia, praises the new study 
but
>> >warns against overemphasizing the importance of stereotype
>>threat. "The
>> >achievement gap is surely caused by multiple factors, including
>> >poverty, racism, and lack of parental involvement," he wrote.
>> >
>> >Following are more details of the experiment led by Mr. Cohen and
>>Mr.
>> >Garcia:
>> >Students were asked to select from a list of values the ones that
>>were
>> >either most important or least important to them. The list 
included
>> >athletic ability, being good at art, being smart or getting good
>> >grades, creativity, independence, living in the moment, membership
>>in a
>> >social group (such as your community, racial group, or school 
club),
>> >music, politics, relationships with friends or family, religious
>> >values, and sense of humor. Excerpts from responses the students
>>gave
>> >follow:
>> >
>> > From African-American students who were asked to write about why
>> >certain values were important to them.
>> >"My friends and family are most important to me when I have a
>>difficult
>> >situation that needs to be talked about. My friends give me
>> >companionship and courage. My family gives me love and
>>understanding."
>> >(female)
>> >
>> >"Well being a great athlete and hitting the book are really the 
most
>> >important things in my life. I'm a great athlete when it comes to
>> >sports like basketball and football but when it comes to school I
>>try
>> >and try to work as hard as I can to go to college and to make my
>>family
>> >proud." (male)
>> >
>> > From African-American students in the control group, who were 
asked
>>to
>> >describe why values that were least important to them would matter
>>to
>> >another person.
>> >"Athletic abilities may be important to someone who comes from an
>> >athletic family. They probably feel that everyone wants them to 
live
>>up
>> >to the capabilities of your family member(s). It may be important 
to
>> >someone else because they are trying to live up to your dream of
>> >becoming a football player, basketball player or whatever. This is
>>not
>> >important to me because I want to be a pediatrician or lawyer."
>> >(female)
>> >
>> >"This value [being good at art] would be important to someone else
>> >because they might be good at that. They might best at it or the
>>might
>> >be happy when they do it." (male)
>> >
>> > From European-American students who were asked to write about why
>> >certain values were important to them.
>> >"This value [music] was important to me when I tried out for stage
>>band
>> >or when I am at a concert. This was also important when I have to
>>play
>> >for a grade. The reason why this is so important is because I love
>> >playing all 3 of my instruments because I picked alot of the 
harder
>> >instruments so it is more of a callenge. Such as my tenor 
saxophone
>>I
>> >practice every night because I love the way it sounds. Same for my
>>bass
>> >that I just started playing about 3 months ago." (male)
>> >
>> >"The value of having close relationships with friends and family 
is
>> >important during school because that's where you are 75% of your
>>life.
>> >Peers are a big issue. Friends mean the world to me because I 
always
>> >know they are there for me." (female)
>> >
>> > From European-American students in the control group, who were
>>asked to
>> >describe why values that were least important to them would matter
>>to
>> >another person.
>> >"Art may be very important to someone else because maybe that 
person
>>is
>> >very artistic. They may like to draw many pictures and love the
>>subject
>> >during the school year. They might also like the experience of
>>learning
>> >in a totally different area. That person might also believe that 
Art
>>is
>> >essential to calm them down; make them relax. They might love the
>> >feeling of how the pencil, pen, marker, or crayon feels in their
>>palm.
>> >Art might be the best way for them to express themselves. 
Sometimes,
>> >that person might find it eaisier to understand themselves best 
with
>> >Art. They might feel drawing is just fun." (female)
>> >
>> >"Art would be important to someone who wanted to be an artist when
>>they
>> >grow up. Being in a membership to a social group is if you planned
>> >helping your community all the time or if you wanted to start a
>>club.
>> >Music would be important to someone who wanted to teach music 
write
>> >mosic or be a rock start. Politics would be important if you 
wanted
>>to
>> >be a politican and get into that kind of stuff." (male
>> >
>> >Dr. Johanna Rubba, Associate Professor, Linguistics
>> >Linguistics Minor Advisor
>> >English Department
>> >California Polytechnic State University, San Luis Obispo
>> >E-mail: [log in to unmask]
>> >Tel.: 805.756.2184
>> >Dept. Ofc. Tel.: 805.756.2596
>> >Dept. Fax: 805.756.6374
>> >URL: http://www.cla.calpoly.edu/~jrubba
>> >
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