Carolyn,
I'm still looking forward to presenting with you at 4C's in March. By
all means, welcome to the project.
Craig
>
Craig,
> Craig,
>
> I am interested in working with the scope and sequence group. If you can
> use another believer in the cause to help with the project, let me know
> what I can do.
>
> Carolyn
>
>
>
>
> Carolyn Kinslow
> Director, Center for Writers
> Director of Composition
> Cameron University
> 2800 West Gore
> Lawton, OK 73505
> (580) 581-5524
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Craig Hancock
> Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 7:52 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: That Reprehensible NCTE Position Statement
>
> Phil,
> I want to echo Paul's points and give more info on Scope and
> Sequence.>The project is an attempt to give thoughtful, professional
> advice about the teaching of grammar for anyone looking for an
> alternative to minimalist approaches. We were given a large part of
> the ATEG conference last summer and at that point approached the task
> on a more general level, coming to a consensus of what the advice
> should entail. Tim Hadley, whose dissertation has focused on the NCTE
> position, gave us a fine talk on its shortcomings, and he has agreed
> to be the point person for our own official response. I suspect he
> would be very happy to have you involved. My own sense is that we
> should put most of our energy on our own recommendations, that we
> should stop arguing for the need for a grammar and simply advocate a
> sensible one. But it's clear that people will bring up the supposedly
> conclusive NCTE position, and we should have a direct response to it.
> Once again, we have been given substantial time at the ATEG
> conference
> for this project. My hope is that we can roll up our sleeves and fill
> in the details, not just take positions on the kind of grammar that
> should be taught, but make recommendations about the SCOPE (what
> should be covered) and SEQUENCE (when), teacher training, more
> reasonable assessment practices, and so on. We have proposed a panel
> for next year's NCTE (without using grammar in the title, but focused
> on these issues from the perspective of state standards, assessments,
> teacher training, and the disjunction among them. Martha Kolln and I
> are listed as presenters of the Scope and Sequence report, and it
> would be nice to have a fait accompli to present. If not, we can talk
> about current state of the project.)
> Paul is more optimistic than I am about progress through NCTE. I
> think they deeply believe that direct instruction in grammar is
> harmful, and anyone who advocates otherwise is a threat to progressive
> education. Most English teachers are trained to teach literature.
> It's hard to talk about grammar with people who have very little
> background in it. But I agree very much with what i take to be your
> position, that we should present a clear and thoughtful alternative.
> If a school system in Ohio wants to change, they will have a
> professional position statement to help them out and a recommended
> program. If we wait for the blessing of NCTE, it will probably never
> happen. But the time is right. There's a grassroots interest in this,
> in part because NCTE hasn't adequately responded to the challenge of
> No child Left Behind.
> The big plan is to get lots of people involved and to delegate
> drafting of the big parts of it. You are most welcome.
>
> Craig
> Phil,
>>
>> We've been working on this issue for some time and have made a good
> deal
>> of progress. There is still a long way to go, and that's part of what
>> ATEG is all about. We did get NCTE to publish our book, Grammar Alive:
> A
>> Guide for Teachers, a couple of years ago. We've been gradually
>> improving our posture at the NCTE Conventions, too.
>>
>> A few years back, NCTE began to backpeddle a bit on their 1985
> position
>> by including our "Questions and Answers" page on it's website; you
> might
>> want ot check it out:
>> http://www.ncte.org/about/over/positions/category/gram/107646.htm.
>>
>> Perhaps you'd like to participate in the Scope and Sequence group
> that
>> Craig Hancock started; we could definitely use more assistance.
>>
>> Welcome into the fray,
>>
>> Paul D.
>>
>> Phil Bralich <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>> As everyone here is aware, the NCTE 1985 Position Statement about
>> teaching
>> grammar advocates against it to the detrimant of all language training
>> native or foreign. While it seems to couch its criticism in the form
> of
>> the supposed lack of benefit that grammar study has on writing alone,
> it
>> seems to presuppose that there would be no other sufficiently useful
>> reason for teaching grammar. The position thereby has the effect of
>> shutting down all grammar teaching.
>>
>> It strikes me that of all the groups that exist in academe today, the
> one
>> most appropriate to address this embarassment to American education is
>> ATEG. Is there currently a working group within ATEG which
> specifically
>> addresses this issue with the goal of getting NCTE to renege and
> replace
>> this statement with something more accurate and more consonant with
> the
>> wishes of parents and many, many educators, business men and
> politicians?
>>
>> If there is such a group, I would like to participate. If there is no
>> current group, I would be happy to take responsibility for setting one
> up,
>> chairing, and spearheading such a group. If there is no current
> provision
>> within ATEG for this sort of a group, perhaps interested parties could
>> form an informal, ad hoc group, put together some joint research and
>> positions papers, and offer this to ATEG/NCTE at a later point.
>>
>> Phil Bralich
>>
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>>
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>>
>>
>>
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>>
>
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