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From:
"Spruiell, William C" <[log in to unmask]>
Reply To:
Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar <[log in to unmask]>
Date:
Tue, 11 Sep 2007 16:36:35 -0400
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Warren,



The term "functionalist" covers a very wide range of theoretical positions, which is why getting a nice, concise definition is always difficult. Here are a couple I've used in the past -- not saying these are very good, but they're the best I've come up with so far in terms of a generic "nonlinguist's" definition (and please, I'm always looking for better definitions if anyone wants to chime in...):



(1)	Functional grammar investigates why people pick particular words and grammatical patterns in particular contexts, 	not just why sentences are "grammatical" or not.



(2)	Functional grammar examines the correlations between the actual use of language and its structure. 



Keep in mind that when a linguist says "functional grammar," s/he may be using the term as shorthand for a specific functionalist theory -- i.e. Halliday's Systemic-Functional Grammar, Foley and Van Valin's Role and Reference Grammar, some versions of Pike's Tagmemics, etc. 



Bill Spruiell



Dept. of English

Central Michigan University



-----Original Message-----

From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Warren Sieme

Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2007 3:13 PM

To: [log in to unmask]

Subject: Functional grammar definition



I've been challenged by the Curriculum Co-ordinator for my department 

to present a definition of functional grammar that "takes thirty 

seconds or less." He strikes me as quite a traditionalist who rolls his 

eyes at the very mention of grammar instruction. I'd appreciate any 

concise definitions anyone would care to provide.



Thanks.



Warren



-----Original Message-----

From: Craig Hancock <[log in to unmask]>

To: [log in to unmask]

Sent: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 1:02 pm

Subject: Re: Supportive empirical evidence  was  Silly, rewarding 

grammar period

























Bill,



   That's a very thoughtful correction. I have been trying to figure

out how to disagree with the anti-grammar approach without having to

argue against Chomsky or the whole language position, which has much to

offer as well. (Our students should be engaged in reading and writing

activities that they feel are important rather than just building

skills out of workbooks.) I think what we need is a new kind of

synthesis, not just choosing sides in an old debate.



   As an alternative to Chomsky, I am increasingly appreciative of

Michael Tomasello's work, including "Constructing a Language: a

Usage-Based Theory of Language Acquisition" (Harvard University Press,

2003). He doesn't believe we have innate rules that drive the system,

but highly functional patterns that rise from actual use. Children

learn language in large part because they understand the contexts being

named. Because many  language decisions happen below the threshold of

consciousness does not necessarily mean they were not acquired or that

conscious attention was not part of that. To the extent that we

understand language acquisition as a socialization process (one we can

be mentored into), it becomes easier to value (and promote) conscious

understanding.



   I like the way Myhill frames the related questions. What aspects of

language are most relevant to writing--can direct teaching of those

relevant aspects improve writing--if so, what are the best ways to

teach them.



   All of this can be empirically grounded, which is I think Ron's

point all along.







Craig







Spruiell, William C wrote:

















  Craig,

Ron, et al.,

   

  In

a sense, the anti-grammar movement isn’t based on the

innatist position as it is developed in linguistics (with Chomsky being

the

most famous example of one of its proponents) – it’s based on a

dramatic overgeneralization of innatism. In defense of Chomsky – and as

a

functionalist, I find myself feeling rather odd typing that phrase –

his theory

simply claims that children acquire the language they’re exposed to

in

infancy and early childhood without conscious effort, etc.

Additional

dialects (e.g. standard-ish English), and the written variants of the

language

(which are in a sense dialect-like, but shaped by additional factors

such as

distancing between writer and reader, etc.) would not be “acquired”

in the same way. In fact, Chomsky’s use of innatism to support the idea

that language-learning ability drops off precipitously in early

adolescence

implicitly contradicts the notion that innatism means you can ignore

conscious

learning procedures in later development.

   

  I

don’t happen to agree with Chomsky on the factors

leading to “critical period” effects, or on a number of other

issues as well, but I also can’t see the antigrammarian position as

being

motivated by his notions of innatism – it was, in a sense, seized upon

as

a science-y sounding rationale for a position people wanted to adopt

anyway. If

anything, the strict innatist position, along with the notion of a

critical

period,  implies that students can’t achieve nativelike

fluency in another dialect. I suppose that could be used as a different

excuse

not to teach grammar, but pessimism makes a lousy basis for educational

policy.

   

  Bill

Spruiell

   

  Dept.

of English

  Central

Michigan University

   





  From:

Assembly for the Teaching of English

Grammar [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Craig

Hancock



  Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2007 11:35 AM



  To: [log in to unmask]



  Subject: Re: Supportive empirical evidence was Silly,

rewarding grammar

period





   

  Ron,



   The inherent or innate nature of grammar is, in fact, a

theoretical underpinning of the anti-grammar movement. Part of that

means

thinking of grammar as a behavior, not as a body of knowledge, and as

largely a

neutral conveyor of meaning. We now test grammar in terms of what

students can

do, not what they know (even in the SAT test) because it is generally

believed

that conscious knowledge is unnecessary and unhelpful.



   You're right; the anti-grammar position that acquisition will just

happen through exposure has never been tested. Debra Myhill makes these

points

nicely in an article in English Teaching: Practice and Critique (Dec.

2005. You

can access it online. Martha and I have an article in the same issue.)

Here's a

few quotes.

  from

abstract:  …there has never been a critical theorization of how

grammar might support the development of writing, and thus there has

been very

limited research which has explored that relationship.. (77)

  Quotes

Tomlinson (1994, p26) that condemnation of grammar on flimsy evidence

was what

many in the educational establishment wanted to hear.  (80)

  What would be so much more interesting, 

and

valuable, would be to explore in more subtly nuanced detail what

research can

tell us about what aspects of grammar and knowledge about language are

most

relevant to writing,  whether direct teaching of these features can

help

children improve their writing, and what teaching strategies are most

successful in enabling this to happen. (80)

   

  The

truth is that teaching grammar and knowledge about language in

positive,

contextualised ways which make clear links with writing is not yet an

established way of teaching and it is, as yet, hugely

under-researched. 

(81)

  The rejection of decontextualised, and with

it by

implication, prescriptive, grammar teaching was rooted in insightful

critique

of what was happening in  English classrooms.  In contrast, the

“grammar in context” principle is both less sharply critiqued and

considerably less clearly conceptualised.  There has been little

genuine

discussion or consideration of what “in context” means. 

Frequently, observations of classroom practice indicate that the notion

of

“in context” means little more than grammar teaching which is

slotted into English lessons, where the focus is not grammar, but some

other

feature of English learning.  (82)

     I think we are absolutely on the same wave

length. The people who rely on these empirical studies that critique

the

teaching of grammar have not done empirical studies of their own. The

cure has

proven worse than the disease.



   But we need to conceptualize a program before we can try it out.

  Craig













Ronald Sheen wrote:



  Thanks,

Craig, for your thought-provoking post.  It raises a number of issues

which demand careful responses.





   





  Before

providing any, I should clarify one or two things.  First, my area of

experience is in SLA (second language acquisition) in which I have done

most of

my research.   However, I believe that in the field of SLA and FLA

(first language acquisition) teachers and students have been the

victims of the

educational theorists who claimed that exposure to correct language in

the

classroom will result in the students' acquisition thereof in spite of

massive

exposure to non-standard language outside of the classroom.





   





  I

take the position that such theorists were (and are) guilty of

unaccountable

irresponsibility and this because they did not support their advocacy

with

empirical evidence.  Thus, for reasons we need not go into here,

educational authorities climbed aboard the bandwagon and suddenly

teachers were

forbidden to teach grammar and were made to feel quilty if they did.





   





  Now,

before coming to the details of your excellent post, I would appreciate

your

responding to the above remarks.   I know that my assumption is

correct in terms of SLA.  Is it also correct in terms of FLA?





   





  Ron.







    -----

Original Message -----





    From: Craig Hancock





    To: [log in to unmask]







    Sent: Tuesday,

September

11, 2007 6:36 AM





    Subject: Re:

Supportive empirical

evidence was Silly, rewarding grammar period





     



    Ron,



   My comments were rather unfocused and unclear, and I suspect you

and I are not far apart on positions. I'll try again.



   For the most part, empirical studies of grammar effectiveness that

i have read measure their effect on writing as compared to students who

have

had writing instruction, but not grammar. Generally, this has been

measured

over the short term. Generally, this has measured students receiving

grammar

instruction, but not practice in writing. (What we would call control

groups.)

This implies that our only goal is improvement in writing and that this

can be

accurately measured in the short term, with grammar versus writing as

an

either/or choice.



   In other words, under this pattern of accountability, Gretchen

could excite her students about grammar, help them become explorers of

language, deepen their understanding of what nouns are all about, and

then have

that determined to be "ineffective" because these students don't

produce more "accurate grammar" (your term for it) or don't score

better on holistically assessed writing samples after a semester or a

year. For

an accurate control group, they would have to be denied real writing

practice.

Perhaps a better test would measure their knowledge about nouns as

opposed to

students who have only memorized "person, place, and thing" as a

definition. Perhaps we should find a way to test their confidence as

language

explorers or their deeper interest in the subject. We could compare

knowledge

about language between a group studying language and another merely

writing.

Everything depends on a match between the testing and the goals.



   I don't know of a good empirical assessment of a knowledge based

approach to grammar over a lengthy period of time. In both England and

Australia, teachers now seem to believe that reintegrating language

into the

curriculum has been a good thing, but it's hard to test that out

empirically.

Perhaps the most direct test would measure knowledge about language,

since that

would be the central goal. We could then try to monitor how well that

knowledge

is put to work in reading, writing, speaking, listening, and so on. The

problem

is that we don't have a current consensus that knowing about language

is a

reasonable goal. Whether or not Gretchen's students can now produce

more

"accurate grammar" would be, I think, irrelevant, at least in the

short term. Very real benefits will be ignored if they are not thought

of as

valuable goals in their own right.



   Knowledge about language does not come quickly and easily, and

putting it to work is not easy as well. We need empirical testing that

does not

diminish the value of knowing about language and does not demand short

term

results.



   We need to envision a K-12 curriculum, not a single course with no

other follow-up by other teachers. Once we do that, we can measure

progress

along the way.







Craig











Ronald Sheen wrote:



    My comments on empirical evidence, Gretchen,

were, as I

think I made clear, in no way an expression of doubt in your success. 

My

comments were both an implicit criticism of the proliferation of how to

teach

grammar books without including any attempt to demonstrate empirically

that the

approach proposed has been shown to be the optimal choice, and a

suggestion to you that you consider doing some sort of comparative

study

yourself.in order to justify the publication of a book.





     





    However, Craig Hancock claims that 'One of the

problems with

many "empirical" studies of grammar is that the outcomes have been so

narrowly defined' and then, unfortunately, goes no further.  The whole

area of comparative studies is a minefield waiting to blow up in the

face of

anyone attempting them.  This, however, is no reason to dismiss them

with

the sort of unsupported comment that Craig makes.





     





    A discussion group such as this one provides a

marvellous

forum for teachers to engage in mutally helpful exchanges.  This said,

however, following such exchanges quickly reveals that the 'evidence '

provided

is largely anecdotal and, therefore, unreliable.   Though comparative

empirical studies are not always reliable, it is undeniable that such

studies

rigorously carried out are the only way in which we can arrive at

reliable

findings which demonstrate for example that approach A is more

effective than

approach B in situation X with students of type Y with aim Z.





     





    Now though the so-called action research

carried out by

practising teachers may sound seductive, we all should realise that the

burden

it imposes on teachers is enormous.  Consequently, before teachers

embark

on such a project, they should make themselves aware of what is

involved.





     





    Ron Sheen







      -----

Original Message -----





      From: Gretchen Lee





      To: [log in to unmask]







      Sent: Monday,

September

10, 2007 6:46 AM





      Subject: Re:

Supportive

empirical evidence was Silly, rewarding grammar period





       







      In

a message dated 9/10/2007 5:45:53 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,

      [log in to unmask]

writes:





        Though

it is clearly desirable to trial approaches which engage students'

interest and

involvement, one should not confuse the latter with effectiveness in

improving

studens' production of more accurate grammar.







      Hello,





       





      I

absolutely agree that empirical evidence is necessary. 

I'm a loooong way from a book.  However, my students are lucky to be

from

the upper middle class and in some cases, the wealthy upper class. 

Their

production of "correct" grammar is very good, barring a few

"between you and I" and lesser/fewer problems.  My aim is to

engage them in analyzing grammar and making it seem interesting at the

same

time.  I can't teach lesser/fewer with countable nouns if they don't

know

(and don't care) what a countable noun is.





       





      At

this point the class is less about error

detection/prevention than it is about helping them find out that

grammar

is fascinating.  With a little luck, they will stay interested enough

to want

to take a linguistics class in college, rather than avoiding it at all

costs.  My little class is obviously silly in many ways (see original

subject line).  But for the first time in many of their lives, grammar

is

a class to which they look forward. I hope that's worthwhile.





       





      Thanks,





      Gretchen



















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