Bill,
That's a great question. It's impossible to answer precisely because this (and other largely prescriptive texts) doesn't have a section in which a wider description of the language is attempted. It doesn't have a glossary or index where one can look up "phrase" and get a clear sense of what the term applies to. And their examples are far too limited to be of use.
My guess is that they treat a head noun and its modifiers (what we would call noun phrase) as permissible. "Any performance like last week's performance would be unacceptable." I can't imagine using "as" in that sentence even though "last week's performance" is clearly a phrase and was treated as such in the structural grammars operative at the time. (Parts of this book date back to 1935, but the usage discussion seems fifties oriented in its examples.)
There are sections of the book that I find clear and useful, other sections that seem almost goofy. I would put this advice in the goofy column.
Craig
-----Original Message-----
From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Spruiell, William C
Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2011 11:45 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Like/as
Craig:
Was S&W really allowing single nouns after 'like', but not any multiword phrases? Or were they adopting the use of 'phrase' to refer only to PPs, VPs, etc.? If the former, that would be bizarrely wrong, but S&W are bizarrely wrong just often enough to make that reading plausible.
--- Bill Spruiell
On Nov 22, 2011, at 9:00 AM, "Hancock, Craig G" <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
Marshall,
I am old enough to have been schooled in the old rules and to remember the controversy over the Winston ad.
I have an original edition elements of Style ( 1959) which lays it out this way: "Like governs nouns and pronouns; before phrases and clauses the equivalent word is as. " You would say "As in the old days" rather than "like in the old days" and "as a cigarette should" rather than "like a cigarette should."
S & W also describes the controversy and comes down on the side of the old rule. In essence, they are saying being current or in current usage doesn't mean it's right. "If every word or device that achieved currency were immediately authenticated, simply on the grounds of popularity, the language would be as chaotic as a ball game with no foul lines." This rather strange (but telling) analogy is intact in my 1972 edition.
Craig
From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Myers, Marshall
Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 9:04 PM
To: <mailto:[log in to unmask]> [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Like/as
Does anybody still use "like" only as a verb (I like lemonade) or as a preposition (She looks like him), but not as a conjunction (You look like you could use a rest vs. You look as though you could use a rest)?
"Winston tastes good like a cigarette should. It may be bad grammar, but it's great taste," a cigarette slogan out of the late 50's .
Marshall
From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:[log in to unmask]]<mailto:[mailto:[log in to unmask]]> On Behalf Of Dick Veit
Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 8:10 PM
To: <mailto:[log in to unmask]> [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Like/as
Unlike Bruce, I have absolutely no problem with "like" as a preposition, orally or in writing.
Bruce, if you object to "like," do you also object to "unlike," as in my opening sentence?
Dick
Sent from my iPhone
On Nov 21, 2011, at 7:16 PM, Bruce Despain <<mailto:[log in to unmask]>[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
John,
You'll have to figure out the collective part, but I have my own opinion. For me the sentences belongs in a written work and the preferred phrase is introduced with "as with." The preposition "like" has taken on a distinct colloquial flavor, especially in some young people's dialects, where is usually serves as a sentence modifier. I would avoid it in written work.
Bruce
--- <mailto:[log in to unmask]> [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> wrote:
From: John Chorazy <<mailto:[log in to unmask]>[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
To: <mailto:[log in to unmask]> [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Like/as
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 15:35:10 -0500
Good afternoon to all. I'd appreciate your collective comments on the following:
"As with (or) Like some other great works, the enduring horror tale Frankenstein was first published anonymously; its author, Mary Shelly, wrote the novel when she was just nineteen years old."
As or like here, and why?
Thank you,
John
--
John Chorazy
English III Honors and Academic
Pequannock Township High School
973.616.6000
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