ATEG Archives

September 2007

ATEG@LISTSERV.MIAMIOH.EDU

Options: Use Monospaced Font
Show Text Part by Default
Show All Mail Headers

Message: [<< First] [< Prev] [Next >] [Last >>]
Topic: [<< First] [< Prev] [Next >] [Last >>]
Author: [<< First] [< Prev] [Next >] [Last >>]

Print Reply
Subject:
From:
Ronald Sheen <[log in to unmask]>
Reply To:
Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar <[log in to unmask]>
Date:
Tue, 18 Sep 2007 17:17:35 -0700
Content-Type:
text/plain
Parts/Attachments:
text/plain (208 lines)
Preamble:



In 1965, I and my family settled in Quebec, Canada.   By 1970, I had 
developed an interest in applied linguistics having taken up a position 
teaching English and linguistics at Laval University in Quebec City.   It 
was then that I began to collect data illustrating the difference between 
North American (NA) and British usage of the simple past (SP - I caught) and 
the present perfect (PP - I have caught) with NA usage tending in certain 
contexts and situations to use the SP where the British used the PP.  Most 
striking to me at the time were examples such as ‘Did you see it yet?’ and 
‘She did it already.’



Such examples were important to me at the time as I was teaching English to 
francophones who had difficulty with the PP..   Though I initially corrected 
uses of the SP where the PP is ‘prescribed’, I quickly began to accept both 
in certain contexts and situations.



I subsequently published the following article:



Sheen, R. (1984)  "Current usage of the simple past and the present perfect
and its relevance for EF/SL."  Canadian Modern Language Review 40/3,
374-385. ***



Therein I suggested that NA usage was developing in such a way that if the 
linguistic context illustrated current relevance as with ‘yet’ and ‘so far’ 
the SP may be used instead of the PP as in



I didn’t see her yet.   and    He visited ten countries so far.



I also suggested that if the non-linguistic situation illustrated current 
relevance, the SP may be used as in



‘Sir, I finished.’



I returned to the UK in the 80s and began to notice that British usage was

beginning to be seemingly influenced by NA usage.  Thus after collecting 
illustrative data I published the following article in Japan where I was 
teaching at the time.



Sheen, R. (1992)  "Variation between the simple past and the present perfect
and its pedagogical implications" (Including new British data) JALT Journal,
14/2, 127-142. ***



Since then, I have done no further research on the subject until I raised 
the issue on this List.   I did so largely because it was the first time I 
have been a member of a list in which the members are mainly teachers of 
English as a first language.



Summary of responses:



The main purpose of posing my query to members was to discover whether any 
members would actually correct occurrences of the SP where the PP is 
prescribed in standard usage.  In fact, nobody among the ten respondents 
said that they would actually do so though most mentioned the fact that they 
would expect the PP to be used rather than the SP.



What would be interesting (to me at least) would be if members were to 
engage in some introspection on their own usage of the SP and PP and provide 
a summary thereof.   Further, if you made a point in your response that I 
have failed to mention here, please raise the issue in a response to this.



Herb was the only member to reveal that he had done a great deal of work on 
the subject and provided a highly sophisticated analysis of data going back 
3000 years in order to support the hypothesis that the neutralization of the 
difference between the two forms derives from the initial gradual reduction 
of ‘have’ to zero and subsequent analogical change.



However, I’ll say no more here for fear of misrepresenting Herb’s position 
on the issue.  Perhaps, he could provide a succinct summary of his 
hypothesis.



Finally, my thanks to all those who provided responses to my query.



***(Unfortunately, I do not have copies of the articles on line.   I have 
spent the last few days trying to find hard copies of them in the chaos I 
call an office.  Should I find them, I will happily make them available to 
anyone who would like copies.)



Ron Sheen.



1.   No soccer team ever drew crowds like these.



2.   I swear I was not in the Eureka Hotel more than three times in my life.



3.   I lectured on the subject a number of times in the past ten years.



4.   Did you ever read Blake?



5.   Gatting already indicated that he would not be available.



6.    I never acted a part in my life.



7.    I was married twice.



8.    Peter, you lost weight.  (Said by someone to Peter after a short 
separation).



9.   Your father couldn’t make it.  He went to the border.



10.  Within the past hour, all the prisoners gave themselves up.  (A 
breaking-news announcement on TV)



11.  In the past few years, Iran captured many soldiers.



12.   The air-traffic control chaos of the last month has led to a 28% 
increase.



13.  I played Australia five times in the last few years.



14.  We built several new prisons already.



15.  Hitler changed the rules; the phony war is over.



16. Did you have breakfast.  (said in a restaurant at 9 am)



17.  We beat them twice so far.



18.  I thank you kindly, Mister, but I had enough.



19.  It started a campaign in the diet industry we never saw before.



20.   I always knew you were a good speaker.

To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at:
     http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html
and select "Join or leave the list"

Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/

ATOM RSS1 RSS2