I suggest that this is not an appropriate forum in which to discuss literature, the canon, and young adult literature. The move to reduce or eliminate the teaching of grammar in secondary schools predates multi-culturalism, ebonics, etc. anyway. We have, of course, discussed to the point of exhaustion the issues concerning language instruction raised by Robert Reis. However, since the membership of this listserv changes continually, perhaps a restatement of some of the results of that discussion is in order. (This is my own take on the matter, so corrections and additions will be welcome.) 1. Discussions about the teaching of grammar are subject to confusion over terminology, for few writers take the time to explain whether they are referring to traditional (schoolbook) grammar, a scientific grammar, usage/mechanics, or stylistic preferences. 2. The teaching of grammar suffers from its connection to the teaching of correctness in writing. For many teachers, if grammar (however ones defines the term) cannot be proven to help students reduce the errors in their writing, then it can be safely eliminated from the curriculum. I think that it is the position of ATEG that grammar should be taught as a liberal art--as a subject with many potential uses, not just the elimination of errors from one's writing. 3. The teaching of grammar also suffers from the dominance of literature in the English department. Prospective English teachers cannot get adequate training in grammar from most college English departments. Indeed, some English departments offer none. (Composition has the same problem.) 4. For many years much of the secondary English curriculum was consumed with the teaching of grammar (defined as traditional grammar and mechanics/usage). This was certainly true when I taught ninth grade in the 1960s. Furthermore, this approach was defined not as the teaching of grammar but as the teaching of composition. In other words, grammar and composition were considered the "same thing" in many ways. There has been a strong backlash against that approach. Composition is now treated as the practice of actual writing first and foremost, with mechanics/usage taking a strong secondary position and grammar-as-syntax a distant third. I think everyone agrees that this reform was long overdue, though many lament how far grammar-as-syntax has been demoted. 5. There is abundant (though hotly disputed) evidence that the teaching of grammar (defined as the teaching of syntax) does not improve student writing. In particular, it does not help students improve the correctness of their writing. Drills on matters of correctness also aren't very effective. I think that the most accepted view at the moment is that direct teaching of usage/mechanics within the context of the students' own writing is the most effective way of improving correctness. 6. We speculate that one reason students have difficult learning and applying grammar (defined as syntax) is that they are being taught traditional schoolbook grammar and that this kind of grammar is an inadequate and often incorrect description of English syntax. Efforts to teach a more scientific grammar have not caught on, possibly because there are no secondary school textbooks that use them, or the scientific grammars are too technical. 7. To counter the problems of traditional grammar, we have discussed developing what we have called a "pedagogical grammar." This would retain traditional terminology to the extent possible, reduce coverage to the most essential concepts, and eliminate the inadequacies of traditional grammar. At least one such grammar, Ed Vavra's KISS approach, has been run up the flagpole, but so far has not achieved widespread acceptance. 7. Presently ATEG is in the process of developing a grammar curriculum that could be proposed for K-12. I'm not familiar with the present status of this work, but I assume that it will have wider purposes than the traditional version. Bill William J. McCleary 3247 Bronson Hill Road Livonia, NY 14487 716-346-6859 To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/