Pat, Since you're dealing with subordination anyway, you might have them investigate what English uses subordination for. One of its purposes, and there are several, is to express what's called a presupposition, that is, a statement that the speaker believes to be true and believes the hearer also believes to be true, like the relative clause in the following: I told my children about the chubby, red-clad elf who slides down chimneys every Christmas. The sentence presupposes that Santa does the Christmas thing. It asserts that I told my children about it. One thing you can do with these sentences is put some obviously false, preposterous notion into a relative clause and ask the students to respond to the sentence, denying just the presupposition. They'll find this hard to do, but they'll find denying the assertion, the main clause, easy to do. This exercise can work well as part of a study of foreground and background information, since background information is normally assumed to be true, or presupposed. Good luck with your course. It sounds exciting. If you have questions about this or want to explore it further, please email me at [log in to unmask] Herb Stahlke Ball State University <<< [log in to unmask] 1/ 7 6:35p >>> Hi, Everyone, A friend of mine is setting up a grammar class at the high school level. She is planning on it being a class on analyzing the language - not a grammar-to-improve-writing class. I've pasted her post to NCTE (with permission) here and am requesting any advice you have for her. She's not sure how to structure the class. What should a high school grammar/linguists class curriculum look like? Thanks, Gretchen in San Jose ************* Jan, LouAnn and others, I will send you stuff as soon as I know what I am doing. I mean, I know I am going to be teaching grammar, and I know we will cover sentence structure, fragments, run ons, simple, compound, complex, compound-complex and try to write a Henry James sentence (Or Jack Kerouac sentence for that matter). Also all sorts of phrases, clauses, verb and pronoun usage, general usage problems, coordination and subordination and other logical type stuff. Just thinking of how to approach it. I want to incorporate technology, use the friday writing and still see that the kids learn what they want to learn. I am thinking of jigsawing some of the information so that certain groups become "experts" and present to the rest of the class. Might be where we can incorporate technology there. Powerpoint etc. I think, in light of Brenda's thread, the friendly little gerund deserves his own web site don't you? Pat Schulze in SD who is getting ideas as I type this. Louann Reid wrote: > > I agree that when students want to learn something they will, and that's one of > the key features of the class Pat describes--besides Pat's own spirit and > enthusiasm, as Jan points out. Another key feature is that grammar is being > taught just as I believe it should be--as a study of language structure to > students able to deal with that kind of conceptual thinking. Too often the > debate over teaching grammar focuses only on the qualifier that such teaching > has little effect on writing. I agree that teaching grammar in order to improve > students' writing has probably not been worth the time it takes. HOWEVER, > teaching grammar so that people will understand their language ought to be > highly effective. Good luck and keep us posted! > > Louann > > Monica Bomengen wrote: > > > Jan posted, > > > > <<PATS! - send syllabus/lesson plans or post on your web page or let me send > > you postage! I'm interested in seeing how you tackle this. > > > > I think what may make the difference in this is that kids are choosing to > > sign up for it, rather than having it thrust upon them. That--plus your own > > special spirit and enthusiasm--will make it work just fine.>> > > > > Absolutely correct. When kids WANT and NEED to learn something, they'll > > seek it out. What a great thing, that 30 kids signed up for this course. > > > > Monica B > > ______ To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/