As much as I admire the nature of the English language, I think we need to be very careful about certain generalized claims about language. Geoff Layton: > The recent posts on verb tenses, as well as the one just > preceding, made me realize all over again what a difficult, but gloriously > unpredictable this language of ours is. I think that the group has shown > that no one really ever masters it. No language can be seriously unpredictable. If that were the case, we would be unable to learn it. From a first language learner perspective, all human languages are more or less easy (or difficult) to learn. Teaching non-native speakers has made me realize how much knowledge of English native speakers "get for free." Our discussion about the English tense aspect system has been about how to explain it. Given its complexity, it is remarkable the few kinds of non-standard forms that occur in the various dialects of native speakers. I suspect the kind of tense problems in native speaker writing that teachers are responding to deal with changes from the past to the historical present to relate a story in more immediate, vivid terms. In other words, even these non-standard switches in tense are principled. As a teacher of pre-service teachers, I think it is much better to show my students how much complex knowledge we all have about English which is never taught. Variability occurs because certain principles of English are in conflict and/or the writing system is an imperfect representation of what is possible in the oral language. Bob Yates, Central Missouri State University (Of course, there are remnants of the historical origins of English which are not predictable. Consider the irregular verb forms. Because I know a little German, I recognize how these irregular forms show that English is a Germanic language Nothing about the verb "go" reveals what its past and past participle forms are. That is truly unpredictable from a first language learner perspective.) To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/