In a message dated 4/2/2001 1:17:55 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [log in to unmask] writes: << My own approach, for what it's worth, would be just to teach present/past/future as 'tense' and refer to progressive, perfect, and other modal-related changes as 'aspects' of the verb phrase. The important thing, I believe, at this age level is to get students to understand the simpler notion of tense (past, present, future) and understand that tense is always present, regardless of the modals or changes made to the ending of the main verb. >> Larry, I like this. I do teach it sort of like this (okay, I admit that I didn't remember the word "aspect" - I just dealt with the aux. verbs. Now I know better!). I have had a major problem selling present perfect as a present tense to sixth graders. They insist that "I have shopped" is a past tense because it is a completed action. Future perfect makes them crazier - "how can you have a completed action in the future??!!" Since I don't have time to really do a proper job of teaching linguistics or real grammar (see archives for long, impassioned post on the subject!), I do the best I can. Right now I'm having the kids analyze the effect of the different tenses (and aspects!) on their writing - hence my current question. They seem to understand how to use the different tenses when they speak and write, but a major issue with middle school kids' writing is controlling tense shift. This approach seems to help them become more aware of what they are writing. We are looking into a linguistics class as an elective for our eighth graders, but I can't find a text for middle school that is "real" grammar vs. "school book" grammar for this level. I also really like the suggestions of "conditional." I think the kids would understand that. Thanks to everyone, as always, for your help, Gretchen in San Jose [log in to unmask] To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/