The man may well have found more satisfaction, if not joy, in haying than Nancy can know. There are folks, mostly men I suppose, who do take a certain pride in doing a dirty job. I suspect it falls under the macho characteristics, but while the concept is not comprehensible to most who have never completed dirty jobs I do believe it comes close to satisfaction if not joy.  The fact that the job is itchy, sweaty and hard work only makes the pride in completion of the work the greater. Whle this may not have been expressed in the poem (I don't have a copy of the poem in reference), it may have been present in the man who did the haying.

  Nancy Patterson <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

I'm going to disagree with the "joyful" interpretation of the man's
statement. I think this is simply the stripped down language of a tired 68
year old man (and Snyder). The man could have grinned. He could have
laughed. But he didn't. He simply said he had been bucking hay most of his
adult life. Snyder doesn't talk about how lovely the hay chaff looked as it
drifted through the shafts of light. He talks about how it itched under
sweaty shirts. There aren't many people who enjoy "haying" as it's called
in mid-Michigan. It's sweaty. It's itchy. And it's plain hard work. I
teach in a rural community and even with modern machinery, baling hay is not
a job people look forward to. As a "non-hayer" I can tell it smells good
when there haying going on. But I've never been haying and I don't intend
to start. I don't think we should make hay bucking into some romantic
endeavor. And it's not really like Snyder to romanticize something like
this, as I recall.

And, yes, feel free to use anything in the powerpoint presentation. That's
why I uploaded it--to share.
Nancy

At 04:52 PM 7/4/01 -0400, you wrote:
>Helene,
> Thank you. Feel free to use my comments. As for Paul's point about
>the positive, almost joyful tone underlying the final comments, I think
>the grammatical aspects may well play a part. All his statements are
>active and, except for "hate," the verbs are quite positive and dynamic:
>bucked, thought, started, gone and done. "I" is the subject of all the
>clauses. None of the sentence subjects are outside forces that are to
>blame for ruining his life; he seems to accept the responsibility for
>the way the years have gone.
>
>Brock
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Helene Krauthamer
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Sent: 7/4/01 1:32 PM
>Subject: Re: Grammar and Snyder's Hay for the Horses
>
>Brock (or Nancy),
>
>Thank you for such a beautiful illustration of how
>grammatical knowledge helps us to read poetry.
>The tutors in my lab have been building a website
>(called the UDC Reading/Writing Connection) where we
>have been looking for examples just like this one to
>show the connections between reading, writing, and
>grammar. May we use this sample, particularly your
>wonderful interpretation, Brock? We will, of course,
>be giving appropriate acknowledgements.
>
>Helene
Nancy G. Patterson
Portland Middle School, English Dept. Chair
Portland, MI 48875

"To educate as the practice of freedom is a way of teaching that anyone can
learn."

--bell hooks

[log in to unmask]
http://www.msu.edu/user/patter90/opening.htm
http://www.npatterson.net/mid.html

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