By golly! I don't believe this is happening! How can anybody think that Martha is anything but right? Part-of-speech recognition is simple. Kolln & Funk are lucid on the subject, as indeed are Quirk et al. Sophie Johnson at ENGLISH GRAMMAR TUTOR http://www.englishgrammartutor.com/ [log in to unmask] ----- Original Message ----- From: Martha Kolln <[log in to unmask]> To: <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2001 3:48 AM Subject: Re: go fishing > >Dear Bruce: > > I don't have to look it up in Quirk. I can look it up in Kolln & Funk > (Understanding English Grammar)--although I suspect I looked it up in Quirk > when I first wrote about this way back when. Here are three examples of > participles as adverbials (p. 122, 6th edition): > > My uncle made a fortune selling real estate. (How?) > The kids came running out of the house (How? Where?) > Betsy went swimming. (Where?) > > On the question of adverbial vs. adjectival infinitives, a good test is the > "in order to" test. Most adverbial infinitives can be expanded with "in > order": they answer the Why question. Another test is movability: > adverbials can often be moved; adjectivals usually can't. In Kathleen's > leather example--money to purchase leather--clearly the infinitive could > open the sentence: That makes it adverbial. > > Martha > > > > > Gordon, > > > >Maybe we ought to have Martha look it up in Quirk, _et.al._ > > > >To me the phrase "go fishing" does indeed have the same force as "fish" in the > >generic sense. Like "I go fishing on Fridays" for the same meaning as "I > >fish on Fridays". "Fishing" is the gerund, as in "I like fishing" or "I am > >busy fishing." I think of "go" as a verb that likes to take a gerund as a > >complement, _i.e._ a gerund in the form of an adverbial noun, if you like. > >(The Latins had a special noun form of the verb, a supine, that would express > >purpose.) We may say, "I go swimming, jogging, sunning, and searching for > >shells on the beach in that order on Fridays." or " I swim, jog, sun, and > >search for shells on the beach in that order on Fridays." > > > >Bruce Despain > > > >>>> [log in to unmask] 08/03/01 09:57AM >>> > >This brings up a question we have been pondering = what is the function of > >'fishing' in "I go fishing"? It would seem the preferable solution would be > >"I fish." Is the structure using 'go' as an apparent 'helping verb' > >idiomatic; somewhat like "I have *got* a cold."? In "I go fishing," can > >'fishing' somehow act like an adverb -- I go {where}; I cannot see it as a > >Direct Object, but maybe my sight is not what it used to be. > >Gordon Carmichael > >Central Texas College and Tarleton State University, Killeen, Texas > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Bruce Despain" <[log in to unmask]> > >To: <[log in to unmask]> > >Sent: Friday, August 03, 2001 10:07 AM > >Subject: Re: <no subject> > > > > > >This discrepancy between Marylou and Sophie is in the area where semantics > >and syntax conflict. I wonder about the following observations. > > > >In the sentence "I must go" are we tempted to think that "go" is the object > >of the verb "must"? (We can ask, "What must you (do)?") Historically, we > >could probably make a good argument that at some time it was so perceived. > >What about in the periphrastic version, "I have to go"? Does the infinitive > >marked by "to" make it clear that maybe we have a complement (object) to the > >verb "have"? Similarly with some other periphrastic versions of the modals > >(can - be able to; will - is going to, is about to) , where we have > >complements to adjectives. At one time this may have been the perception. > >But as with other formations of the verb, we now have modals as well as > >helping verbs for the semantic categories established as tense and aspect. > > > >Do the Australians now have a compound verb that works like modal > >pariphrasis in "try to improve"? Do they want to make "try" a quasi-modal? > >Perhaps the contrasting colloquial "try and improve", which seems to be an > >attempt to maintain the original syntactic independence, motivates the new > >syntactic analysis for "try". > > > >For me the object of "try" is an infinitive phrase serving as a noun phrase > >and the object of "improve" is a noun phrase. With the phrase "try and > >improve" the accomplishment is implied. Here the verb "try" is either > >intransitive or has an undersood object of "something", and the verb > >"improve" shares the same subject, but has its own object. The existence > >and the contrast of these two collocations, seems to give "try to improve" > >the implication that the improvement will in fact occur. > > > >Bruce Despain > > > >>>> [log in to unmask] 08/03/01 05:55AM >>> > >`Mary is trying to improve the condition of her house': > > > >There is no question in the above sentence of the verb's being anything more > >or less than `is trying to improve', nor of its object's being anything > >other than `the condition of the house'. `Mary', the subject of this > >active-voice verb, is not acting upon `to improve the condition of her > >house'; she is acting upon `the condition of her house'. > > > >Analysis of this sentence must note that it contains an active-voice verb, > >and that the characteristic of an active-voice verb is that its subject acts > >upon its object: Its subject names its actor, and its object the acted-upon > >To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: > > http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html > >and select "Join or leave the list" > > > >Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ > > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: > http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html > and select "Join or leave the list" > > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/