David, As a fifth grade teacher I think that it is more that kids see no reason to learn grammar. Most people they know, and those they hear on tv and in films, do not use grammatical English so the kids see no reason they should be expected to learn. Caroline To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/