On Tue, 18 Sep 2001 04:26:33 -0400, Ed Vavra <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > I was struck by Rebecca's description of how she has students use >tape recorders, and by the praise for her approach sent in by other >members of the list. My initial reaction is that what she is doing is >irresponsible and unethical. She may, of course, be able to prove me >wrong, but I would like to see the evidence. I don't believe that she >can effectively provide her students with a good analytical grasp of >sentence structure, no matter what textbook she uses, in a single >semester while doing what she says she does. Vavra appears to conflate a number of issues and make a number of assumptions. Upon this foundation of ignorance he then hurls accusations of "irresponsible and unethical" pedagogy. I am surprised he has not previously been sued for such verbal behavior. Response: 1) The course I mentioned, Lanugage & Teaching, in which students tape record language utterance and engage in active discovery learning of grammatical structure, is one course in a two-course sequence: Engl. 311, Language & Teaching; and Engl. 430, Advanced Grammar. In Advanced Grammar, I spend a full semester providing students a good analytical grasp of sentence structure. As anyone will know who has read my previous posts, I use Max Morenberg's DOING GRAMMAR in my English structure course. Thus, Language & Teaching and Advanced Grammar play off of each other. Where the students learn English structure in Advanced Grammar, they learn contrastive analysis of language variation as applied to their daily lives in Language & Teaching. Perhaps more importantly, it is here that they confront most deeply their prejudices, assumptions, and stereotypes about issues of "proper grammar," "good English," "slang," and "broken English," etc. 2) Gretchen's initial post did not ask what to do to teach English structure. She asked for an alternative to teaching the 8 parts of speech. Note that teaching the 8 parts of speech at the elementary level bears no resemblance to teaching "a good analytical grasp of sentence structure." What I gave her was an alternative to teaching the 8 notionally-based parts of speech since children appear, predictably, bored to tears with a tool that does them little practical good. 3) Gretchen did not ask what to teach in a single semester period. My answer presupposed no such restriction. Thus, while it is indeed untested, I suspect that students engaging in such life-long (K - 16) discovery learning of language structure would indeed emerge with a "strong analytical grasp of sentence structure." Nobody ever claimed such mastery would emerge after one semester. What I did suggest would emerge after one semester is a heightened student awareness of that language varieties (spoken, written, regional, ethnic), display contrastive structure, all of which is internally coherent and regular. This knowledge then goes to challenge their erroneous, and damaging presumption that there is one and only one "proper English" and that all others are flawed, imperfect renditions of the Standard. Students emerge from Language & Teaching understanding at a deep and personal level that the structure of language varies by time, place, audience and communicative purpose, knowledge which they then are able to use with their students to help students code-switch between language varieties in their speech and writing. In concert with an English structure course (Advanced Grammar), this proves a powerful educational experience. Rebecca ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Rebecca S. Wheeler, Ph.D. Assistant Professor of Linguistics Department of English 1 University Place Christopher Newport University Newport News, VA 23606-2998 Telephone: 757-594-8891 Fax: 757-594-8870 Rebecca S. Wheeler is Editor of Syntax in the Schools, the quarterly journal of the Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar (ATEG), an assembly of the National Council of Teachers of English (NCTE). www.ateg.org. Research Interests: * dialects and language varieties in the schools, * reducing the achievement gap between inner city minority children and middle class children, * discovery learning of grammar in the classroom ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/