In a message dated 8/31/2001 4:08:03 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [log in to unmask] writes:<< There is, however, a big difference between teaching in college and teaching in secondary or elementary school. >> Paul, All I can say is amen. This is a very divisive subject at our school. Several of our teachers teach middle school as if it were college. Lots of lectures, 3-5 pages of notes a day, three-day tests, rock-firm deadlines, etc. On the other side several of us have decided to explore the time in school where learning suddenly stops being fun and see if we can slow that process. (Remember that I have never taught college, so my comments here are from personal experience - always suspect!) Remember elementary school? You probably learned the most intensely there than you ever learned in your life. You learned to read, to write, to use numbers - and it was fun. Learning IS fun for most of us. At what point does it become something that we have to coerce with grades and implied threats to affect a kid's future? From our absolutely nonscientific look around at local schools, it seems that middle school is the demarcation line. In middle school, suddenly the push is on to prepare kids for high school. High school is a huge push for college. There's suddenly no time for fun. "Sit down, learn what I present, and get ready for your exit exams" seems to become the norm. Many teachers are faced with huge pressure for producing expert test takers and feel they have no choice. I get very sad when I see teachers say that classes aren't supposed to be fun. Why not? With a small shift in focus, the material (and responsibility) can be given to the students in a way that IS fun. Get the kids interacting, moving, and digging the material out for themselves. Bring in computers, art, poetry, and music to help you. (In a grammar workshop I took from Johanna last year, she had a room full of adults on the floor, using magnetic poetry to illustrate some points she was making about teaching linguistics - now, that was fun, and we were adults!!) You don't have to be Vanna White or Steve Martin - in fact is it counterproductive to have a teacher-centered classroom where the teacher is the focus of attention, IMHO. It might just come down to whether we are teaching our specific subject or kids. I just got back from a conference in Japan, so I am jet lagged. I probably wasn't as tactful as I should have been, but it is a subject about which I feel strongly. ~Gretchen in San Jose [log in to unmask] To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/