--- Linda Comerford <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > John and Len, > > Okay, I read my messages out of order when I asked > what was wrong with the test questions and can now > see that the way the explanations were written is > the problem. I'm wondering where those answers > occurred? If this is a test, surely the students > didn't see them, so who did? Maybe the graders? > Maybe the students did as post-test explanations? I > guess I'm still confused. > > I do stand behind my original point, however, that > teaching the correct way to use semicolons is useful > for students in school and the business world alike. > > And I still find the nuances of punctuation > fascinating! > > Linda > > "Crow, John T" wrote: > > > Hi Len, > > > > Paul's well-stated message speaks to this type of > testing in general. In defense of the CAHSEE, it > requires that students write an essay, so it isn't > purely a collection of decontextualized sentences. > However, the approach to the teaching of grammar > inherent in these types of questions, combined with > the misinformation that they contain raised my > hackles: > > > > Item #1: The Alaskan rivers are clear and > sparkling in summer however; they are frozen in > winter. > > > > Solution: This is a run-on sentence No it isn't. > two sentences run together without punctuation I > guess the semi-colon doesn't count as punctuation. > between them and needs to be fixed. "However" is a > conjunction No it isn't. that needs to be set off by > commas Not always. In fact, it won't be set off by > commas when corrected. It would be possible to put > in a period and a capital H on however. But that is > not one of the choices. You dont join two complete > thoughts that are equally important Importance > relative to each other isn't an issue. Neither is > "two complete thoughts." with commas or colons. You > can most certainly join "two complete thoughts" with > a colon EX: I go to Alaska every year for one > reason: I love to fish for salmon. > > > > Item #2: > > > > The frightened pilot's face was ashen as he > gingerly lowered the plane onto the Smiths' private > __________ that time was running out for his ailing > friend. > > > > A. runway: he knew > > > > B. runway, he knew > > > > C. runway. He knew > > > > D. runway but he knew > > > > There are two perfectly acceptable answers here: > A and C. I can also construe a very reasonable > context that would make D acceptable. > > > > Solutions: Read this one out loud, inserting the > missing words. Reading out loud won't help at all. > In spoken English, there is no difference between > sentence boundaries and clausal boundaries, so > students won't "hear" anything wrong with any of the > resulting sentences. How many sentences do you have? > Do you have one complete thought or two complete > thoughts? Here we go with "complete thoughts" again. > This is a very squishy concept--I can count several > "complete thoughts" here. How do you end a > sentence? How do you begin a new sentence? You know > this, dont you? Only one of these answers includes > a period and a capital letter. > > > > This post is already long enough, so I will end > here. Contact me off the listserv if you want to > continue this discussion--I could go on and on . . . > . > > > > John > > ([log in to unmask]) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar > on behalf of Len Wyatt > > Sent: Wed 8/18/2004 3:11 AM > > To: [log in to unmask] > > Cc: > > Subject: Re: CAHSEE > > > > Could you please explain to me further > what is wrong with the questions? I think I am > missing something. This is the kind of question > (with a slight variation in the format) that my > students frequently face on the BC Provincial Exams. > > > > Len Wyatt > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Assembly for the Teaching of English > Grammar > > [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf > Of Crow, John T > > Sent: August 17, 2004 2:12 PM > > To: [log in to unmask] > > Subject: CAHSEE > > > > > > California has passed a law requiring high > school students pass a standardized exam in order to > graduate--the CAlifornia High School Exit Exam > (CAHSEE). Here are two seriously flawed sample > questions from the study guide for the so-called > Writing Conventions Strand > (http://www.cde.ca.gov/ta/tg/hs/elaguide.asp). Need > I say more?? > > > > John > > > > Released CAHSEE question > > > > The Alaskan rivers are clear and sparkling > in summer however; they are frozen in winter. > > > > A. in summer, however they are frozen in > winter. > > > > B. in summer; however, they are frozen in > winter. > > > > C. in summer: however they are frozen in > winter. > > > > D. Leave as is. > > > > Solution > > > > This is a run-on sentencetwo sentences run > together without punctuation between themand needs > to be fixed. "However" is a conjunction that needs > to be set off by commas. It would be possible to put > in a period and a capital H on however. But that is > not one of the choices. You dont join two complete > thoughts that are equally important with commas or > colons. The preceding sentence joins two complete > thoughts that could be separated into two sentences. > What punctuation mark joins the two thoughts into > one sentence? A semicolon joins them. The correct > answer is B. (WC 10.1.1) > > > > Released CAHSEE question > > > > The frightened pilot's face was ashen as > he gingerly lowered the plane onto the Smiths' > private __________ that time was running out for his > ailing friend. > > > > A. runway: he knew > > > > B. runway, he knew > > > > C. runway. He knew > > > > D. runway but he knew > > > > Solution > > > > Read this one out loud, inserting the > missing words. How many sentences do you have? Do > you have one complete thought or two complete > thoughts? How do you end a sentence? How do you > begin a new sentence? You know this, dont you? Only > one of these answers includes a period and a capital > letter. The correct answer is C. (WC 10.1.1) > > > > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, > please visit the list's web interface at: > > > http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html > > and select "Join or leave the list" > > > > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ > > > > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit > the list's web interface at: > http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html > and select "Join or leave the list" > > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ > Your D answer is not acceptable; that would be a run on in my book. Sorry. I agree, however, with the A and C _______________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win 1 of 4,000 free domain names from Yahoo! Enter now. http://promotions.yahoo.com/goldrush To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/