Bruce,
I have to admit that I tend to like to analyze what is there and not
get into the possibilitites that weren't taken, but I'm glad people are
taking this kind of patient time with language analysis. You're right;
more and -er seem to be doing the same kind of work.
Craig
Bruce Despain wrote:
> Craig,
>
> Let me add that the justification of separating out "-er" as an adverb
> is its parallel structure with the adverbs "more", "so",
> "enough" and "too." The difference is in the form of the
> complement. It is identical to "more" (the preferred comparative for
> multisyllable adjectives), "two mile more distant." "So" is
> complemented with a noun clause (content clause) like a result clause,
> "so far that I can't go." "So", "enough" and "too" are complemented
> with an infinitive phrase (alias "clause"), "so far as to be
> difficult;" "Far enough to reach easily," and "two miles too far to go."
> Bruce
>
> >>> [log in to unmask] 2/4/2005 8:30:30 AM >>>
> Craig,
>
> You are right. The better view is that the modification (of a noun)
> is adjective-like. I was going off the traditional use of "adverbial"
> for all notions of time and place, etc. Hence, "the place where I
> sat" would be adverbial in that terminology, after all, "where" is an
> adverb.
>
> Here is how I would (over-)analyze one of your examples. (It depends
> on my "quack" theory of principled paraphrasis)
> "two miles further"
> two = adverbial noun of number (non-count) [tells how many miles]
> (many) = quantifying limiting adjective (omitted)
> miles = adverbial noun of distance (plural count) [tells how much farther]
> (much) = quantifying limiting adjective (omitted)
> -er = adverbial suffix of comparison (attached to far [suppletive
> "farth" or "furth"])
> far = adverb of distance (I think the use of further for farther is
> becoming entrenched in some dialects)
>
> Indeed, I take the "about" to be an approximative adverb in the phrase
> "about eleven miles." Such adverbs as "almost" and "nearly" are of
> this same class. I think that we can expand the phrase again with
> another (kind of) adverb "just about eleven miles."
>
> Bruce
>
> >>> [log in to unmask] 2/4/2005 7:37:39 AM >>>
> Bruce, Michael,
> I'm surprised no one wrote in on this, but isn't "about eleven
> miles away" adjectival rather than adverbial? It seems to me to
> modify Laodicea, with the commas present to accomodate its
> nonrestrictive nature. (The Which is test distorts the picture, as it
> would for many postnominal modifiers. The box on the table. The box
> which is on the table.)
> I'm not sure how to describe the internal structure, though it's
> not the only example I can imagine: two miles further, three days
> past, and so on. At a place three miles away, we will stop for lunch.
> A restaurant two miles back had been an ideal place for lunch. If I
> had to choose, I would pick away as the head; it seems to be acting
> almost like a preposition in a postposition (away about eleven miles).
> "About" qualifies eleven. "about eleven miles" tells us the extent
> of the awayness. Don't you think?
> I tried some quick research, but couldn't find a treatment of it.
> Has someone come up with a name for it?
>
> Craig
>
> Bruce D. Despain wrote:
>
>>Michael,
>>
>>In my grammar I take it as a non-restrictive adverbial (of place)
>>modification to Laodicea. Without ellipsis the noun phrase would read:
>>"Laodicea, (which is) about eleven miles (far) away (from it)." This makes
>>_from_ (relation) the head, with the adverb (direction) _away_ modifying it,
>>which in turn has the adverb (distance) _far_ modifying it, which in turn
>>has the adverbial noun (extent) _miles_ modifying it, and then the adverbial
>>noun (number) _eleven_ modifying _miles_ (many varieties of adverbs!).
>>However, the idiom _away from_ seems to be moving in the direction of a
>>prepositional phrase modifying _away_. If you can't live with ellipsis,
>>then perhaps you will have to have some of these basic syntactic functions
>>taken over by the parts that do appear. Maybe _miles_ would then take over
>>as the head with _away_ modifying it, or prossibly better vice versa. They
>>are both adverbial with very similar meaning, one being simply more specific
>>than the other.
>>
>>I hope this helps.
>>
>>Bruce
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "R. Michael Medley (GLS)" <[log in to unmask]>
>>To: <[log in to unmask]>
>>Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2005 7:52 PM
>>Subject: what kind of phrase
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>In the sentence:
>>>
>>>"Colosse has never been either rebuilt or excavated, unlike its neighbor
>>>Laodicea, about eleven miles away."
>>>
>>>What kind of phrase is "about eleven miles away"? I realize it is
>>>performing an adverbial function, but what is the head word of the phrase?
>>>
>>>Thanks in advance for your advice.
>>>
>>>
>>>R. Michael Medley, Director
>>>Intensive English Program
>>>Eastern Mennonite University, Harrisonburg, VA 22802
>>>[log in to unmask] (540) 432-4051
>>>
>>>To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
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>>>
>>
>>
>>
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