Ed, Once again, I think you're riding this horse too far. It's not just that terminology varies, as it does in a lot of disciplines. It's that there is also a general opposition to technical terminology in the performance based testing ethos that's taking us all over. Herb Johanna, Isn't it the case that the standardized testers cannot test terms because there is no agreement on what the terms should be? Ed >>> [log in to unmask] 9/30/2005 12:53:14 AM >>> Speaking of standardized tests, I have made an interesting discovery. It is preliminary, but I will learn more as I look at more of the teaching materials being used in CA. In looking at a 9th-grade pedagogical grammar, I have found a difference between unit exercises/reviews and standardized test practice: The test practices rarely focused on terminology except in the instructions, and even there it was often lacking. Typically, I found instructions along the lines of "choose the letter of the word or group of words that belongs in each space". Then there is a paragraph with blanks requiring correct word forms, e.g., forms of "who/whom", irregular verbs, etc. So what? Well, students who have the advantage of having grown up in a standard-English environment will make fewer mistakes on such tests. In a test on irregular verb forms, for instance, my students made virtually no mistakes, while on a test requiring identification of roles like direct object, they did poorly (in a very brief in-class trial). Students from nonstandard-English environments are as doomed on those types of items (irregular verbs) as are the standard-speaking kids on "who/whom". In other words, the tests give an advantage to students who can choose the correct form from their native-speaker knowledge, without doing any grammatical analysis. I found it interesting that the unit exercises had a lot of focus on grammar terms, but the standardized-test practice did not (I'm assuming, of course, that these practices are based on actual test items). I'll be very interested to see if this is characteristic of most of the CA materials. Dr. Johanna Rubba, Associate Professor, Linguistics Linguistics Minor Advisor English Department California Polytechnic State University, San Luis Obispo E-mail: [log in to unmask] Tel.: 805.756.2184 Dept. Ofc. Tel.: 805.756.2596 Dept. Fax: 805.756.6374 URL: http://www.cla.calpoly.edu/~jrubba To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/