Johanna, I used Talmy's books a number of years ago in syntax and contrastive analysis classes, but I'd have to brush up that knowledge. Herb Bill and Craig, Thanks for the elucidation of Halliday's view of subjects/actors. I don't understand the term 'ergative' as you are using it, Craig. Ergative is a case that appears in languages in which an agent-subject (in a transitive clause) is marked rather than default. This is how the term is used in linguistics. As you rightly point out, the shirt and car are not agents in your examples of tearing and exploding. Those are not transitive clauses. Halliday's "definition" of subject is just what I use in my classes. It would be nice if we could get a discourse-based definition of the term. Is anyone else on this list familiar with Givon (or others') work on American functional syntax? I'd be interested in your thoughts on what it might contribute to grammar instruction in the context of writing. Dr. Johanna Rubba, Associate Professor, Linguistics Linguistics Minor Advisor English Department California Polytechnic State University, San Luis Obispo E-mail: [log in to unmask] Tel.: 805.756.2184 Dept. Ofc. Tel.: 805.756.2596 Dept. Fax: 805.756.6374 URL: http://www.cla.calpoly.edu/~jrubba To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/