Geoff, I love it! Paul Geoffrey Layton <[log in to unmask]> wrote: A "UNIQUE" STORY (TRUE!) To my father, using a comparison with "unique" was a sin of the worst order, and I was thoroughly cured of this odius practice, probably by the age of four or five. Imagine my horror, then, as a college freshman (circa 1963) to read the following words in my history text: "most unique." And this by a presumably esteemed author! I immediately wrote him a letter (care of his publisher) to upbraid him, nay castigate him for this error of unimaginable magnitude. To my surprise, he wrote back thusly: "Dear Mr. Layton: You are quite right although unduly concerned." I have been much less concerned ever since. Geoff Layton >From: Craig Hancock >Reply-To: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar > >To: [log in to unmask] >Subject: Re: comparing superlatives (was: Blue Color; each other) >Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 08:12:17 -0500 > >Paul, > I'm with you on one level. It's a shame when a perfectly fine (indeed, >a unique word) begins to lose its special quality. You would like to >use it in such a way that everyone knows you mean "one of a kind". It's >the kind of point I enjoy from William Safire in his columns. Your >students, though, are used to thinking of it as meaning "unusual" >because that is a common meaning for it in actual use. I confess I have >probably said "very unique" without thinking about it as >problematic.>Thanks to your conversation, I have now looked closely at >the dictionary and deepened my understanding. > I love the idea that you would talk to your students about it. When >language changes, something is gained and something is lost. You care >about fine shades of meaning, as we all should. Ultimately, I think >decisions about these sorts of changes are out of our hands. A word >means what people think it means. But I also think that sort of >discussion with students is very productive. Language changes over >time, and it may not always seem for the best. > > >Craig, > > > > My problem with "very unique" is that unique means (to ME), one of a > > kind (or some emphatic variation of that idea). It is illogical to me to > > say that something can be "very one of a kind" or "most one of a kind." > > I'm not sure how I feel about "thoroughly unique" and "absolutely > > unique;" for some reason, and I am hard pressed to express what that > > reason is, the logic doesn't bother me. Maybe I'm being too fussy about > > that usage. What I really meant to emphasise in my previous post, > > however, was that many of my students couldn't see the logical problem > > in the expression in the first place. > > > > It's curious that the two most "objectional" examples from the OED >below > > are first from the voice of a toad (In "The Wind in the Willows") and > > next from an advertisement (Country Life, 1939). I guess that fictional > > toads and real-life ad copy writers have a different sent of standards > > from mine! > > > > So it goes, > > > > Paul D. > > > > Craig Hancock wrote: > > >Paul, > > I just remembered I can access the OED if I use my UAlbany account. > > Here's a section copied from their entry for "unique". It has been > > "Objected to", as they say, but a fairly common practice in their own > > examples, dating back well into the nineteenth century. > > > > Craig > > > > From the OED, the second entry for "unique": > > > > 2. a. That is or forms the only one of its kind; having no like or > > equal; standing alone in comparison with others, freq. by reason of > > superior excellence; unequalled, unparalleled, unrivalled. > > In this sense readopted from French at the end of the 18th c. and > > regarded as a foreign word down to the middle of the 19th, from which > > date it has been in very common use, with a tendency to take the wider > > meaning of ‘uncommon, unusual, remarkable’. > > The usage in the comparative and superlative, and with advs. as > > absolutely, most, quite, thoroughly, totally, etc., has been objected to > > as tautological. > > > > 1618 W. BARCLAY Well at King-horne Avij, This is a soueraigne and vnicke > > remedie for that disease in Women. 1794 R. J. SULIVAN View Nat. I. 3 A > > concentrated, and an unique aggregation of almost all the wonders of the > > natural world. 1809 R. K. PORTER Trav. Sk. Russia & Sweden (1813) I. >xxv. > > 285 As it was thoroughly unique, I cannot forbear presenting you with so > > singular a curiosity. 1842 J. P. COLLIER Armin's Nest Ninn. Introd., A > > relic..not only unique in itself, but unprecedented in its kind. 1866 > > LIDDON Bamp. Lect. v. (1867) 368 [Christ's] relationship to the >Father..is > > absolutely unique. 1871 B. TAYLOR Faust (1875) II. II. i. 84 A thing so > > totally unique The great collectors would go far to seek. 1885 Harper's > > Mag. April 703/1 When..these summer guests found themselves defrauded of > > their uniquest recreations. 1908 K. GRAHAME Wind in Willows viii. 168 > > ‘Toad Hall,’ said the Toad proudly, ‘is an eligible self-contained > > gentleman's residence, very unique.’ 1912 CHESTERTON Manalive I. iii. 86 > > Diana Duke..began putting away the tea things. But it was not before > > Inglewood had seen an instantaneous picture so unique that he might well > > have snapshotted it. 1939 Country Life 11 Feb. p. xviii/2 (Advt.), >Almost > > the most unique residential site along the south coast. 1960 [see >DIQUAT]. > > 1980 Verbatim Autumn 15/2 A high-ranking state Alcoholic Beverage > > Commission official said Friday that Wednesday's retroactive renewal and > > transfer of the beverage permit of the rural Bloomington Liars' Lodge by > > the Monroe County Alcoholic Beverage Board was ‘unique but not >uncommon’. > > > > > > > > > > Doesn't the 'each' automatically make the 'other' singular? > >> > >> Paul D. > >> > >> Speaking of redundancy, my students often struggle against the notion > >> that "very unique" doesn't make sense to me. > >> > >> stein wrote: > >> > >> Here is your posting Joanne. > >> Thank you, Herb and Paul for responding to my question. > >> Dalia > >> -------Original Message------- > >> > >> From: Johanna Rubba > >> Date: 03/15/06 02:51:00 > >> To: stein > >> Cc: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar > >> Subject: Re: Blue Color; each other > >> > >> > >> Dalia, > >> > >> I wonder if you could post this for me: (Thanks!) > >> > >> "I like the blue color" could be another example of the tendency > >> towards redundant expressions which seems to be strong in English right > >> now. My students often write things like "equally as good"; there's the > >> old "refer back"; "both my sister and brother share this tendency"; and > >> others that don't come readily to mind. I can imagine someone > >> responding to a question like "Which color shirt do you like best?" > >> with "The blue color." "Color" links the answer to the question, and > >> puts the queried word ("which color") in the answer. > >> > >> I also have a query about "each other" -- how do we make it possessive, > >> as in > >> > >> "They are always snooping into each other's business." Should it be < > >> each others' > ? I keep doing a Gestalt shift on this; right now the > >> first one looks right. How about a clear more-than-two: > >> > >> "The students then proofread each other's papers." Here, the <'s> looks > >> wrong; the coreference with the plural "students" is getting in the > >> way. > >> > >> Dr. Johanna Rubba, Associate Professor, Linguistics > >> Linguistics Minor Advisor > >> English Department > >> California Polytechnic State University, San Luis Obispo > >> E-mail: [log in to unmask] > >> Tel.: 805.756.2184 > >> Dept. Ofc. Tel.: 805.756.2596 > >> Dept. Fax: 805.756.6374 > >> URL: http://www.cla.calpoly.edu/~jrubba > >> > >> This mail was scanned via Beit Berl PineApp > >> > >> > >> This mail was scanned via Beit Berl PineApp > >> > >> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web > >> interface > >> at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or > >> leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ > >> > >> > >> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web > >> interface > >> at: > >> http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html > >> and select "Join or leave the list" > >> > >> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ > >> > > > > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web >interface > > at: > > http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html > > and select "Join or leave the list" > > > > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ > > > > > > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web >interface > > at: > > http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html > > and select "Join or leave the list" > > > > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ > > > >To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface >at: > http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html >and select "Join or leave the list" > >Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ "If this were play'd upon a stage now, I could condemn it as an improbable fiction" (_Twelfth Night_ 3.4.127-128). To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/