Stahlke, Herbert F.W. wrote: > That quotative development is another interesting wrinkle. A lot of > grammatical and lexical change takes place on the basis of metaphor, > that is, speakers trying to be more expressive. But then the more > expressive expression becomes hackneyed and that gradually wears down > to almost nothing. Take English "have", which meant "possess, hold" > in OE but has become a perfect auxiliary with for nearly all speakers > reduces to schwa, as in "woulda" and for some speakers simply drops > out as in the non-standard perfect aspect "I seen him". > > > > Herb > > > > > > Stahlke, Herbert F.W. wrote: > > Marshall, > > > > Synchronically, I'd argue that there's a register difference, as you > suggest, between A and B and that "as" and "like" are both > subordinators. In C, "the way" is the head noun modified by an > asyndetic relative clause, that is, a clause that doesn't start with > "that" or one of the wh-relative words. Functionally, "the way" may > be on its way to becoming a subordinator in its own right, but I don't > think it's shifted that far yet. > > > > Diachronically it gets interesting because "like" comes from Old > English "lic", which meant "body". We derive both "like" and the > suffix -ly from "lic." That is, a noun has gradually morphed into a > /conjunction/preposition and into a suffix. "The way" is acting as if > it's at the beginning of such a change. That suggests that at some > time, and, perhaps, for some speakers already, "the way" has ceased to > be an ordinary noun phrase. > > > > Herb > > > > > > > > > > Fellow Grammarians, > > Let me ask about a related subject. Look at the following > constructions. I consider them to be paraphrases of each other. > Granted, the first is probably more acceptable in academic English, > the second is more conversational (some of you may remember the > Winston cigarette commercial: "Winston tastes good like a cigarette > should. It may be bad grammar, but it's great taste."). The third, I'm > not sure about. > > I see the first as using "as" as a subordinator. In the second, I see > "like" also as a subordinator. What I am not sure about is the third > one. Is "the way" acting as a subordinator? They all seem to have the > same structure, but do they? > > A. He thinks as I do. > B. He thinks like I do. > C. He thinks the way I do. > > Marshall > > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web > interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select > "Join or leave the list" > > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ To join or leave this > LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: > http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or > leave the list" > > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ > > Herb, > > Thanks for your quick and learned reply. > > Isn't "like" also being used as a quotative as in the following sentence? > > I saw him on the corner, and I > said, 'Like, what are you doing here,' and he says, > 'Like, I'm waiting for Mary.' > > Marshall > > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web > interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select > "Join or leave the list" > > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ To join or leave this > LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: > http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or > leave the list" > > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ > Herb, I'm located in eastern Kentucky. I grew up near Louisville. I want to ask you about another situation. Based on what you said about "I seen," I wonder if that same line of logic would explain "I taken"? It is a common verb choice in speakers I grew up with and here. Thanks, Marshall To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/