Peter, Am I reading you well? Are you thanking Bill Spruiell for "his attempt to maintain a tone that is respectful on this list"? And how did Bill do that? By forwarding a message from a "member"(?) of this forum who never misses the opportunity to atack anyone who disagrees with her OPINIONS? I have participated in many forums, but I never had to deal with a man or woman so mean and vicious as Johanna Rubba. I am a member of the Linguist List, and I post there from time to time. All messages posted on the list are first reviewed by two or three moderators, and those messages that lack etiquette or contain personal attacks are rejected. Some of the messages I have posted on the ATEG forum would not have made it on the Linguist List because they were improper. I am glad that some of the forum members have been so kind to remind me that those messages were not written with the respect and politeness due to each member of this list. It is a standard matter in academia that ad hominems are not proper. In fact they are called, as you know, *fallacies.* When an individual attacks the person instead of politely and profesionally discussing the merits of an idea or an opinion, that individual is committing an "academic crime." True professionals do not indulge in such manner of behavior. Johanna Rubba could not post on the Lingust Lists. The messages she posts in the ATEG forum are so full of hatred, so vicious, so mean, and devoid of any etiquette that no forum would put up with her for too long. It is amazing me that people like Bill Spruell, who should know better, forward her extremely rude messages to the other forum members. Look how she begins the message Bill Spruell forwarded from her recently: "Phil Bralich is obviously of the same school as Ed Vavra and, in many of his past posts, Eduard Hanganu -- their main agenda seems to be to deliberately misinterpret and belittle the beliefs, aims, and >aspirations of the people in ATEG (not all of its members, I might say)who are engaged in a very long-term, and very, very young program to revise the way grammar is taught as part of language arts education in the USA." Well, tell me what does her statement have to do with the discussions on grammar terminology? What does it have it to do with the progress of the goals of this forum? Her statement is nothing but a MALICIOUS, MEAN, and LIBELLOUS personal attack on members of the forum who did not do anything to deserve it. And how did Bill Spruell work "to maintain a tone that is respectful on this list" by forwarding such a message from Johanna Rubba to the members of this forum? Johanna Rubba is not only mean, ugly, and vicious. She doesn't even know to WRITE. I have collected all her messages, printed them, and read them carefully. All of them are written in a high school student style, with no focus and direction, constantly drifting from one idea to another, full of bias and discriminatory statements. Such raving and confusion is hard to find even in the most unskilled junior high school writing. Those who teach college Argument know that in order for an argument to be well written opposing perspectives need to be given their place in the debate. But Johanna Rubba is ALWAYS RIGHT. All those who disagree with her are wrong, do not have the right education, and do not know what they are talking about. Johanna Rubba's messages are an EXAMPLE of how messages *should not be written* on any forum, under any circumstance. Her writing skills make me feel ashamed as a linguist, and her mean and vicious behavior makes me sick. I sent her two personal messages of apology in which I tried to appease her demons, but those messages did no good. Johanna Rubba is a BULLY, and all members who forward her mean and vicious messages to this forum are as guilty as she is of a behavior which should never be allowed on the ATEG list. Her messages contain *libel*, that is "defamation by written or printed words, pictures, or in any form other than by spoken words or gestures" and she might need to remember that liabel could constitute grounds for legal action. Johanna Rubba seems to give me some "credit" after I wrote certain messages in which I admitted that I, like all human beings, could have erred in what I had stated: "Eduard started out making all kinds of claims based on his credentials in linguistics, only to back off from them as strong evidence was produced that countered them at least he shows some willingness to admit that he might be wrong about some things." I regret to say that she she has misunderstood me. I *backed off* because I was shocked and apalled by her uncommonly mean and ugly behavior, and not because "strong evidence was produced that countered" my "claims." Johanna Rubba has not produced on this forum any "strong evidence that countered* my arguments. All she did was to attack me viciously and maliciously, and I was terrified by her ugliness. I believe that the members of the ATEG group have come together in order to discuss matters of importance, in order to contribute to a reform in the way grammar perceived in the American education at this time. We should be free to express our opinions and perspectives without the fear that some bully will try to tear us apart for what we thing or believe. I also believe that our behavior with one another needs to be professional, kind, and courteous. We are an open forum, that is, accessible to anyone. What if some of our students would want to get acquainted with what we are doing and saying here? Would we be good EXAMPLES of EDUCATORS to them, or we would look like a "dog eats dog" group of people? I make an appeal to all members of this forum: Please, let's act and write in a manner that will not embarrass us later. Do not condone or allow messages or comments written in a malicious, vicious manner. Do not forward messages that attack individuals instead of politely and respectfully discussing ideas. Craig, Herb, I know that you are good men, true educators. You don't have anything to say about what Johanna has been doing to this group? Are you still going to forward her mean, libellous, and vicious messages to the members? Are the other members going to allow her to bully those who do not agree with her? I believe we need to stop this childish, irresponsible behavior and begin focussing our energies on the work that Ed Vavra and Martha Kolln have been dedicating 20 years of their lives. Eduard On Sun, 30 Jul 2006, Peter Adams wrote... >I want to add my thanks to Bill Spruiell for his well reasoned post >concerning the discoverability of the word classes and to thank him for his attempt to >maintain a tone that is respectful on this list. > >Paul's reply seems to indicate his failure to understand the points Bill made >rather than the other way around. Bill did not mention "trifling matters >such as irregular plurals." He pointed out that large classes of words that >are normally considered nouns are not pluralizable, which is quite different >from being "irregular" in the formation of their plurals. > > > >Peter Adams > >To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: > http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html >and select "Join or leave the list" > >Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/