Whatever . . . Christine -----Original Message----- From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Edmond Wright Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 5:27 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Defining Traditional Grammar > Dear Richard, Christine and Jane, What is it 'to move on'? We might take the George Herbert poem that Gregg cited. The first three lines provide a context in which a LIVING child is being referred to: the last line subverts all that, for we now see that a DEAD one is the referent. Our understandings have been updated; our selection from the continuum has been transformed -- and this is what any informative statement does. We have 'moved on', and the 'entity' in 'common' acceptance is not now what it was, not the same at all. A dialogic effect has been achieved. One human being has hopefully re-ordered the sortings of the world that another is doing. This is the core of the Statement, the core of grammar. So the philosophical aspect is far from irrelevant, and it is one that students can grasp. As Jerome Bruner says, 'ant subject can be taught effectively in some intellectually honest form to any child at any stage of development' ('Beyond the Information Given', A London: Allen & Unwin, 1973, p. 413). So this discussion is certainly not irrelevant to teachers of grammar. Talkers of a language begin by taking for granted that there is one entity, one subject, one sorting common to both, that is being referred to. But they only TAKE FOR granted that it is, and 'take for, means 'accept something not wholly certain AS IF it is'. They have to do this so that the correction, the predicate can go through, so that 'the information given' can be improved upon, gone 'beyond'. If they didn't start with this hypothesis of singular reference they could never bring the DIFFERING understandings into some kind of overlap, the overlap that (hopefully) allows the updating to go through. Notice that SINGULAR entityhood is not sacrosanct. Consider this fragment of dialogue between two bird-watchers engaged in counting birds: A: D'you know that bird you just counted? B: Well, what about it? A: It was two-and-a-bit leaves. How 'singular' was B's use of the pronoun 'it'? Or A's, for that matter? Edmond Dr. Edmond Wright 3 Boathouse Court Trafalgar Road Cambridge CB4 1DU England Email: [log in to unmask] Website: http://www.cus.cam.ac.uk/~elw33 Phone [00 44] (0)1223 350256 To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/