I have a background in language deficit (neurolinguistics) and I'm very familiar with speech-hearing and linguistics research in the areas of Specific Language Impairment, Wms Syndrome, delayed L1 development, etc. I think that background makes it easy to see the parallels between various types of language deficit and what I've seen in unimpaired native speakers' (ESL teachers) formal writing. I think I emphasized that the authors of the samples I posted are NOT impaired. My point that in formal writing we use more complex vocabulary and sentence structures than we do in everyday discourse and that mastery of language at that level apparently is not learned automatically. There are multiple types of language impairment, but in general these four things are typical: (1) limitations of vocabulary (and difficulty acquiring new vocabulary); (2) limitations of sentence structure (adj clauses, center- embedded clauses, and passive are especially lacking, and genuinely impaired people are usually unable to learn these structures); (3)poor control of most or all closed class items (pronouns, preps, conj, determiners, morphological markers -tense/aspect, plural, etc--, modals/auxiliaries) (4) coherence (sometimes the structure is fine, but the sentence does not make sense; lexical combinations don't go together, etc). I hope this helps. In the article I just submitted I compared examples from the ESL teachers with examples of deficit. I didn't do that in my posting, in part because I wasn't sure whether anyone would be interested. The very few responses I've gotten have made me aware that language deficit is not a familiar area. The vast majority of native-speaker ESL teachers are perfectly capable of learning how to use their own language, and they cannot possibly help ESL students if they are unable to explain how to put sentences together, when to use a particular VP construction, etc. If you study a language you have every right to expect your teacher to be able to explain the language to you. yvonne ---- Original message ---- >Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2006 16:20:06 -0500 >From: Robert Yates <[log in to unmask]> >Subject: Re: Re ESL teachers' language skills: A misunderstanding? >To: [log in to unmask] > >Yvonne, > >The formatting of your post with examples confused me. > >I would very much like to read your analysis of why you consider these >examples of a language deficit. > >Bob > >>>> [log in to unmask] 08/04/06 7:09 AM >>> >Bob, >I apologize for the delayed response. Re your request >for "more specific" examples --I'm not sure what you mean. >Do you want me to explain what the problem is in each case? >If so, please let me know. >yvonne > >To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: > http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html >and select "Join or leave the list" > >Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ Yvonne Stapp PhD Assistant Professor of ESL James Madison University Dept of Exceptional Education MSC 6908 Memorial Hall 3130B Harrisonburg, VA 22807 phone 540-568-4525 To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/