Yvonne, Your example sentences certainly seem like first drafts. The errors seem to be the kind that a lot of beginning writers would make when they are not careful but just want to get the ideas down quickly perhaps intending to fix the grammar later. Does the person exhibiting such a deficit simply not realize that there are logical problems, that the concepts need to be aligned better? Surely the teacher should know the value of review and revision. Maybe such a lesson could be given more emphasis. Is there even a writing course given as a prerequisite to your class? Could we have here an example of the kind of carelessness that might be caused by our society of quick-and-dirty text messaging and of impersonal telegraphic comunication by the media? I wonder if there are simply more people today who want to get credentials without really caring to work through the details? Is it a problem of attitude? Bruce >>> "Yvonne Stapp" <[log in to unmask]> 08/07/06 7:00 AM >>> Rebecca, The examples are written. That's the only kind of data I'm interested in. The examples are responses to exam questions from my online intro linguistics course. I should point out that the exams are "open book" -students can refer to the text and articles and also to the video lectures; they have 24 hours to complete the exam and are instructed to proofread their exams before submitting them. The use of these responses made it possible to see where the areas of language vulnerability are. Most people taking the linguistics intro course are teaching or planning to teach ESL, but speech-hearing majors often make up as much as a third of the class. The examples I posted were only from ESL people because I've been particularly concerned about the relationship between the relationship between the language skills/knowledge of ESL teachers and the very poor progress of ESL students in the K- 12 system. In a paper I just submitted I distinguished the kinds of errors in these and other samples from the kinds of errors that represent distortions of information. I categorized the error data (lexical, grammatical/morphological and coherence)and provided comparisons between data samples and samples of impairment in each case. yvonne ---- Original message ---- >Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2006 07:19:49 -0400 >From: Rebecca Wheeler <[log in to unmask]> >Subject: Re: native-speaker (ESL teacher) problems with the language >To: [log in to unmask] > >Yvonne, >Regarding the "language problems" you cite from native English speakers, >were these examples spoken or written? > >thx, > >Rebecca > > >Rebecca Wheeler >Associate Professor >Language and Literacy >Christopher Newport University >Newport News, VA 23606 > >[log in to unmask] > >To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: > http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html >and select "Join or leave the list" > >Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ Yvonne Stapp PhD Assistant Professor of ESL James Madison University Dept of Exceptional Education MSC 6908 Memorial Hall 3130B Harrisonburg, VA 22807 phone 540-568-4525 To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ NOTICE: This email message is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all copies of the original message. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/