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Yikes! I wrote “any examples you could site.”

Standards are slipping!

________________________

Richard Veit

Department of English, UNCW

-----Original Message-----
From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Veit, Richard
Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 6:17 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Changes of register (was: Adverb of Manner)

Paul,

The editors I work with on my books are anything but careless, and I’ve been impressed by their knowledge of conventions and attention to detail. I’d be surprised if the NY Times hires editors who are any less skilled. I read the Sunday Times in print and the daily online version and am not aware of their “having slipped a great deal.” Do you mean that they have changed their conventions, or that they no longer consistently observe their conventions? I’d be interested in seeing any examples you could site.

I know you are aware of the language-is-deteriorating phenomenon. For those who don’t, there are ample examples from every period of history in every language of statements that usually run “A generation ago, people spoke better/wrote better/had higher standards, but today standards have slipped/people are now ignorant/lazy/the language has deteriorated.” The problem is that people said exactly the same thing a generation ago/ a hundred years ago/ five hundred years ago—and every period in between. The evident conclusion is that this is a psychological phenomenon rather that a linguistic phenomenon.

I’m not saying you’re wrong about deterioration in journalism. I would like to see support for statements such as the one you made about the Times.

Dick Veit

________________________

Richard Veit

Department of English, UNCW

-----Original Message-----
From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Paul E. Doniger
Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 1:49 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Changes of register (was: Adverb of Manner)

I could be sticking my neck out, but it seems to me that journalism has relaxed its rules excessively in recent years, or the quality of writing and editing has been lowered. I say this knowing full well that I am married to a newspaper editor who holds very high standards; also, The NY Times holds the reputation for highest standards in the industry (they literally wrote the book on journailstic writing). However, they all seem to have slipped a great deal -- even public radio has become careless (if this is the right word) in it's use of formal language. I'm not sure where this comes from, but I suspect that there is a direct correlation between this and the lack of formal (I did not say traditional!) grammar instruction in the lower grades (K-8? K-12?).

I would not accept a change of register as standard simply because of its use in the media, but I suspect I am in a minority.

Paul D.

----- Original Message ----
From: Peter Adams <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 9:52:38 AM
Subject: Re: Adverb of Manner

In a message dated 8/16/06 9:49:55 AM, [log in to unmask] writes:

it is the case that as the language changes it tends to change in informal registers before the change creeps into more formal usage. Teaching register as a part of teaching grammar is a good way to acquaint students with notions of appropriateness and of change in progress.

Good point, Herb. But I guess what I'm puzzled by is how to know when a change has been accepted for writing in a fair(ly) formal register . . . like the New York Times.

Peter Adams
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