Gretchen, I would say you should feel welcome to post discussion items that you want to post -- that will elicit ideas or feedback that can help you in your classroom. If one or two people object, well, they object. If thirty more find your discussion interesting, so be it. We should be encouraging people to post to the list. Some people get into heated discussions sometimes -- and the tension between those who believe in the traditional model and method of teaching English grammar and those who would like to update it is not likely to go away any time soon. To comment a little on the previous discussion, I find room for both inductive and deductive presentation methods in a grammar classroom. When students discover their subconscious knowledge of grammar through inductive exercises, they learn two things: (a) that they "know" more English grammar than they thought (that knowledge has just been below conscious awareness up to now) and (b) that they can discover what they know through precise methods. I used to teach German grammar inductively to English-speakers, and it freshened the class -- held their attention better, made them feel active in learning. I would then go over the rules so discovered deductively, so it is impossible for me to know the effect of the method -- most of my students passed their tests. But it was certainly was less dry than deductive presentation. The deductive presentation assures that the students get a clear, second statement of the rule, and caters to students who prefer deductive presentation. Giving students inductive means for doing things like finding the subject of a sentence or deciding which case is required for a pronoun can have long-term utility. Discovering a rule yourself is more likely to result in remembering that rule later. No, I don't have studies handy to cite to prove this, but I have learned it along the way in the course of studying about learning and teaching. Dr. Johanna Rubba, Ph. D. Associate Professor, Linguistics Linguistics Minor Advisor English Dept. Cal Poly State University San Luis Obispo San Luis Obispo, CA 93407 Ofc. tel. : 805-756-2184 Dept. tel.: 805-756-2596 Dept. fax: 805-756-6374 E-mail: [log in to unmask] URL: cla.calpoly.edu/~jrubba To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/