As a native Southerner, I was amused (but not very surprised) to notice that my students in Michigan have their own plural version as well - "you guys." It's used for both men and women (so the "guys" part doesn't have its usual masculine connotation) and, as kind of a clencher for the argument that it's acting as a unitary pronoun, the possessive in informal speech is "you guys's" (the last word sounds exactly like "guises"). As for singular they, I'm still requiring plural-only they in college written work, on the assumption that this is what is expected in wider use. I was surprised to find, however, that one of my students had been marked down on a paper in a previous class for using "him/her" instead of singular they. It's at times like these that the descriptivist in me gives ground to the pragmatist: I don't care which system wins out, but I wish we'd hit a firm consensus soon so I can stop worrying that I'll get my students in trouble by teaching them the wrong thing. Bill Spruiell Dept. of English Central Michigan University From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Geoffrey Layton Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 1:00 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: more teaching questions on grammar (singular "they") Dick - The only problem with driving out the singular thou/thee is that we are now left without a definitive plural - except, of course, if you live in the South, where you solve this problem with "y'all." To rephrase Yakof Schmirnoff, "English. Vat a language!" ________________________________ By the way, didn't a similar socio-political thing happen a few centuries back with plural "you" becoming singular as a polite alternative to singular "thou"? It proved so successful that it drove thou/thee from the language. Dick Veit ________________________________ Gear up for Halo(r) 3 and get a $25 Best Buy gift card. It's our way of saying thanks for using Windows Live(tm). Get it now! <http://gethalo3gear.com?ocid=SeptemberWLHalo3_WLHMTxt_1> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/