This thread raises an interesting issue. In my college courses, I've started dealing with the situation by adding what amounts to a mini-unit on it. Part of what students frequently don't know about "grammar" is that prescriptive rules vary; bringing in different style manuals for side-by-side comparison is a nice way to get them thinking about it. Inevitably, some of the students react by wanting to know which one is "right," and sometimes are rather upset to find that the variance is allowed to continue -- it's all tied in with the public perception of grammar as a kind of immutable objective object, like basic math. In the grammar course for future English teachers, I have the students write a short comparison-contrast paper based on a selection of style guides, reference grammars, and school texts (they pick a limited topic, like "comma rules" or "fragments"). AP style's approach to serial commas, I suspect, may be a holdover from the earlier twentieth-century notion that commas that aren't mandatory should be forbidden -- or may just be based on the notion that if you cut out those commas, you end up saving ink. I hadn't even noticed they used that approach until I started getting journalism majors in my classes. --- Bill Spruiell Dept. of English Central Michigan University -----Original Message----- From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Nancy Tuten Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2007 8:41 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Style book One of the most frustrating issues for me in teaching mechanics and usage (and I see these as quite different from teaching grammar, syntax) is that style books don't agree. In general, though, the Associated Press Style Manual, which is the bible for most in journalism, differs from the majority of other very reputable style books (Chicago, MLA, APA) on several key issues-- the use of the additional "s" after the apostrophe with singular possessive nouns ending in "s," the omission of the serial comma, and the use of quotation marks around titles of stand-alone works (movies, books, plays), just to name three. I am not familiar with the NYT style manual, but I imagine it would be similar to the AP style guide since it is published by a newspaper. At the college where I am the writing-across-the-curriculum director, I encourage faculty across the disciplines to be sure the students in their majors understand which style will be expected of them once they become professionals. But even before they get into their majors, it seems important to teach students in high school and in first-year college composition classes that different style books exist, that they don't all agree, and that it is their responsibility to find out which style a particular assignment is supposed to reflect. Faculty at all levels need to reinforce this thinking by requiring students to adhere to a particular style manual for writing in their classes. The "just be consistent" requirement doesn't serve students well either in college or after. Neither is it helpful to let students believe that one style book is universally accepted. Many faculty members themselves do not adhere to a single style guide but simply assume that the "way they learned" a particular usage "rule" is the only "right" way. Their students then adopt the same attitude. That was a rambling answer to your question, but I guess the bottom line is that if I were to use a single style book to teach mechanics and usage, it wouldn't be one in journalism because the rules there seem often to fly in the face of the wisdom espoused by other prominent style guides. I wish I understood why This is a topic of much interest to me, so if anyone responds off list, please include me. Thanks! Nancy Nancy L. Tuten, PhD Professor of English Director of the Writing-across-the-Curriculum Program Columbia College Columbia, South Carolina [log in to unmask] 803-786-3706 -----Original Message----- From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of DD Farms Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 10:10 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Style book DD: Has any one tried using the New York Times Style Book in the teaching of writing or grammar? Or any other style books? This is the way it is done by the professionals, sort of thing. Out there in the real world. To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/