I thought that Martha did that - the problem as I understand it is not the quality of the refutation, it's the willingness of people to listen to it. Geoff Layton It’s long past time for someone to write a thorough critique and refutation of Hartwell’s article. Tim Timothy D. Hadley Assistant Professor of Professional Writing English Department Missouri State University Springfield, MO 65897 office 417.836.5332, fax 417.836.4226 [log in to unmask] Editor, ATEG Journal -----Original Message-----From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Carol MorrisonSent: Thursday, October 18, 2007 5:17 PMTo: [log in to unmask]: Re: Patrick Hartwell's Article Thank you. I am only halfway through his article, but it seems quite important. I currently give formal grammar instruction to four freshman sections of basic writing (at the most basic level) and I am trying to figure out why so few of the other composition teachers do this. I am sure that there is value in it, but I suppose that this needs to be proved. CLM --- Bob Yates <[log in to unmask]> wrote: > Carol, > > In the grammar course I teach for pre-service > English teachers, I make specific mention of them. > > If there is one grammar Hartwell leaves out, it is > one that describes the kind of grammar an second > language learner of English needs to have. > > Bob Yates, University of Central Missouri > > >>> Carol Morrison <[log in to unmask]> > 10/18/2007 12:30 PM >>> > Can someone tell me whether the (5) categories of > grammar that Hartwell outlines (Grammar 1-Grammar 5) > are commonly referred to when one speaks of teaching > grammar? The article to which I am referring is > "Grammar, Grammars, and the Teaching of Grammar." > Until reading this article, I did not realize that > grammar had been divided into those classifications. > Thank you. > > Carol Morrison > > To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit > the list's web interface at: > http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html > and select "Join or leave the list" > > Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ _________________________________________________________________ Boo! Scare away worms, viruses and so much more! Try Windows Live OneCare! http://onecare.live.com/standard/en-us/purchase/trial.aspx?s_cid=wl_hotmailnews To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/