In answer to the initial question about other standard grammar texts that lump together possessive pronouns and determiners, Diana Hacker's _Rules for Writers_ compounds these problems by lumping together the true possessive pronouns (e.g., mine, yours, etc.) with the possessive determiners (e.g., my, your, etc.) but then says that "some of these possessive pronouns function as adjectives modifying nouns: my, you, his, her, etc." (p.498). Students with reference only to Hacker then think that possessive nouns and adjectives are the same and never learn to refer to these as determiners. For all the reasons that Herb and others listed, these categories are, of course, different and phrase differently within the noun phrase. I've just finished reviewing these distinctions with my students, and I am afraid that the difference in terminology between traditional and linguistic grammars frustrates them greatly. That said, I've opted to use Hacker alongside Longman so that students have reference to the two approaches and the differences between them. I think the best we can do is point out where the traditional texts are wrong but still prepare students who will teach English and presumably grammar what terminology they can expect their future students to know and how to correct it. Natalie Gerber To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/