The way I understand this issue is that there are phrasal verbs which consist of a verb plus a particle , and there are phrasal verbs which consist of a verb plus a preposition. Verb plus preposition constructions, as I understand it, are usually transitive. The way to identify verb plus preposition constructions is to make the sentence into a passive. If the preposition stays with the verb, it is a phrasal verb. I think about food a lot. Food is thought about a lot by me. Because food becomes the subject of the passive and about stays with the verb, about can be determined to be part of the verb. You couldn't say *About food is thought a lot by me. We agreed on the solution. The solution was agreed on by us. You couldn't say *On the solution was agreed by us. However, considerth is sentence: My brother looked up the block. It cannot be made passive, but you could possibly say this: Up the block my brother looked. 'Up the block' is moveable like many other adverbials. According to Quirk, Greenbaum, Leech and Svartik, there is another category of phrasal verb which consists of a verb plus both a preposition and a particle. I look forward to the party. The party is looked forward to by us. Looking forward to seems to mean something like anticipate. I have noticed that most phrasal verbs appear to have Latin-based one-word near synonyms. Additionally, my understanding of phrasal verbs isn't that the particle or preposition modify the verb, but rather that the verb plus particle or preposition creates an idiomatic meaning which is different from either the verb or particle/preposition. In my experience, these constructions make ESL students crazy. A good resource for this issue is Longman's Dictionary of Phrasal Verbs. Quirk, Greenbaum, Leech and Svartik also discuss this extensively. They claim there are five categories of phrasal verbs. Janet Castilleja Heritage University Toppenish WA -----Original Message----- From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Ronald Sheen Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2007 9:54 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: [BULK] Re: Help for a puzzled teacher Importance: Low Bill's suggestion that "Think about" could be classed as a nonseparable phrasal verb seems to me to not take into account the essence of a phrasal verb which is a combination of a verb and a word with the form of a preposition but which functions as an adverbial particle. 'about' does not qualify in any way 'think' and is, therefore, not adverbial. 'Think about' cannot, therefore, be a phrasal verb. On the other hand, I seem to remember seeing a book which used the separable-nonseparable criterion as a means of teaching ESL students about 'phrasal verbs'. However, if I remember rightly, this entails ignoring the grammatical function of the preposition/adverbial particle. It seems to me that there are two important considerations here. On the one hand, with ESL classes, the prime consideration should probably be the most effective teaching approach in order to enable students to know when they can 'separate' and when they cannot. On the other hand, in first language situations, as this is not a problem, the prime consideration might be the grammatical functions of the preposition-like words in different combinations. Ron Sheen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Spruiell, William C" <[log in to unmask]> To: <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 9:21 AM Subject: Re: Help for a puzzled teacher Peter, Craig, et al. -- There's an extra distinction that may be at work here -- separable vs. nonseparable phrasal verbs. You can look up a word, or you can look up a word; you can put up with something, but you can't put up something with. "Think about" could be classed as a nonseparable phrasal verb. Bill Spruiell Dept. of English Central Michigan University To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/