I have heard and said "Thanks so much!" as a fervent version of "Thank you very much" usually in a personal encounter and accompanied by a hug. For a group, "Thank you-all so much!" I am Deep South and likewise approaching geezerhood. Today I hear "Thanks so much" spoken in sarcasm by the younger set; i.e. those under 60. Question: How was it? Answer: It was SOOO hot (same as you described) My students ranged from CA to FL to SC: secondary, undergraduate, graduate, postgraduate. Scott -----Original Message----- From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of ATEG automatic digest system Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 12:10 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: ATEG Digest - 20 Jan 2008 to 22 Jan 2008 (#2008-14) There are 3 messages totalling 1170 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. Unresolved comparative "so" (3) To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 15:38:48 -0500 From: "Spruiell, William C" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Unresolved comparative "so" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C85D36.CD3EAF19 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear All: =20 I'm trying to figure out whether my reactions to a particular construction are based on my age (incipient geezerhood), or my native dialect (Inland Southern). It involves use of comparative "so" without an accompanying "that" clause, roughly equivalent to "very": =20 A: "Thanks so much" B: "It was so hot." =20 I hear (A) very frequently, but I don't remember hearing it when I was younger. I also hear expressions like (B) from my students, although not nearly as frequently as (A), which has become a set expression. I can almost make (B) work in my own speech, but only with a lot of emphasis on the "so" and an emphatic drop at the end of the sentence, but this is not always how my students use it. Somehow, I can't manage (A) at all - any attempt and I can tell it's coming out as sarcasm ("Oh, now my leg's broken. Thanks SO much.").=20 =20 I've checked the American Dialect Society listserv archive, but I either used the wrong search terms, or there hasn't been much discussion of it. My attention was particularly drawn to it by a recent political robocall (I live in Michigan) in which the candidate (who is older than I am) not only used (A), but managed to sound natural while doing it.=20 =20 Thanks!=20 =20 Bill Spruiell Dept. of English Central Michigan University =20 To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ ------_=_NextPart_001_01C85D36.CD3EAF19 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html xmlns:v=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" = xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" = xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" = xmlns:m=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" = xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"> <head> <meta http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Dus-ascii"> <meta name=3DGenerator content=3D"Microsoft Word 12 (filtered medium)"> <style> <!-- /* Font Definitions */ @font-face {font-family:Calibri; panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";} a:link, span.MsoHyperlink {mso-style-priority:99; color:blue; text-decoration:underline;} a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed {mso-style-priority:99; color:purple; text-decoration:underline;} span.EmailStyle17 {mso-style-type:personal-compose; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:windowtext;} .MsoChpDefault {mso-style-type:export-only;} @page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </style> <!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapedefaults v:ext=3D"edit" spidmax=3D"1026" /> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit"> <o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" /> </o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--> </head> <body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vlink=3Dpurple> <div class=3DSection1> <p class=3DMsoNormal>Dear All:<o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal>I’m trying to figure out whether my reactions = to a particular construction are based on my age (incipient geezerhood), or = my native dialect (Inland Southern). It involves use of comparative = “so” without an accompanying “that” clause, roughly equivalent to = “very”:<o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p> <p = class=3DMsoNormal> &= nbsp; = A: = “Thanks so much”<o:p></o:p></p> <p = class=3DMsoNormal> &= nbsp; = B: = “It was so hot.”<o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal>I hear (A) very frequently, but I don’t = remember hearing it when I was younger. I also hear expressions like (B) from my = students, although not nearly as frequently as (A), which has become a set = expression. I can almost make (B) work in my own speech, but only with a lot of = emphasis on the “so” and an emphatic drop at the end of the sentence, = but this is not always how my students use it. Somehow, I can’t manage (A) = at all – any attempt and I can tell it’s coming out as sarcasm (“Oh, = now my leg’s broken. Thanks SO much.”). <o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal>I’ve checked the American Dialect Society = listserv archive, but I either used the wrong search terms, or there hasn’t = been much discussion of it. My attention was particularly drawn to it by a = recent political robocall (I live in Michigan) in which the candidate (who is = older than I am) not only used (A), but managed to sound natural while doing = it. <o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal>Thanks! <o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal>Bill Spruiell<o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal>Dept. of English<o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal>Central Michigan University<o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p> </div> </body> </html> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" <p> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ ------_=_NextPart_001_01C85D36.CD3EAF19-- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 16:29:21 -0500 From: "Veit, Richard" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Unresolved comparative "so" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C85D3D.DA1FE7AD Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Bill: =20 I Googled "thanks so much" in parentheses and got 17 million hits. Then I added 1950 (randomly chosen date) and looked at some newspaper archives where the phrase appeared. Here is one example from an Iowa newspaper in 1950 <http://www.newspaperarchive.com/LandingPage.aspx?type=3Dglp&search=3D%e2= %80 %9cthanks%20so%20much%e2%80%9d%201950&img=3D1726695> . Clearly, it's not = a new expression. =20 Dick Veit ________________________________ Richard Veit Department of English University of North Carolina Wilmington ________________________________ From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Spruiell, William C Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 3:39 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Unresolved comparative "so" =20 Dear All: =20 I'm trying to figure out whether my reactions to a particular construction are based on my age (incipient geezerhood), or my native dialect (Inland Southern). It involves use of comparative "so" without an accompanying "that" clause, roughly equivalent to "very": =20 A: "Thanks so much" B: "It was so hot." =20 I hear (A) very frequently, but I don't remember hearing it when I was younger. I also hear expressions like (B) from my students, although not nearly as frequently as (A), which has become a set expression. I can almost make (B) work in my own speech, but only with a lot of emphasis on the "so" and an emphatic drop at the end of the sentence, but this is not always how my students use it. Somehow, I can't manage (A) at all - any attempt and I can tell it's coming out as sarcasm ("Oh, now my leg's broken. Thanks SO much.").=20 =20 I've checked the American Dialect Society listserv archive, but I either used the wrong search terms, or there hasn't been much discussion of it. My attention was particularly drawn to it by a recent political robocall (I live in Michigan) in which the candidate (who is older than I am) not only used (A), but managed to sound natural while doing it.=20 =20 Thanks!=20 =20 Bill Spruiell Dept. of English Central Michigan University =20 To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list"=20 Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ ------_=_NextPart_001_01C85D3D.DA1FE7AD Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html xmlns:v=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" = xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" = xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" = xmlns:st1=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" = xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40" xmlns:ns1=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns:ns0=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"> <head> <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; = charset=3Dus-ascii"> <meta name=3DGenerator content=3D"Microsoft Word 11 (filtered medium)"> <!--[if !mso]> <style> v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);} </style> <![endif]--><o:SmartTagType namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" = name=3D"State"/> <o:SmartTagType = namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name=3D"City"/> <o:SmartTagType = namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name=3D"PlaceName"/> <o:SmartTagType = namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name=3D"PlaceType"/> <o:SmartTagType = namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name=3D"place"/> <o:SmartTagType = namespaceuri=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name=3D"PersonName"/> <!--[if !mso]> <style> st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) } </style> <![endif]--> <style> <!--a:link {mso-style-priority:99;} span.MSOHYPERLINK {mso-style-priority:99;} a:visited {mso-style-priority:99;} span.MSOHYPERLINKFOLLOWED {mso-style-priority:99;} /* Font Definitions */ @font-face {font-family:Tahoma; panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;} @font-face {font-family:Calibri; panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; font-size:11.0pt; font-family:Calibri;} a:link, span.MsoHyperlink {color:blue; text-decoration:underline;} a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple; text-decoration:underline;} span.EmailStyle17 {mso-style-type:personal; font-family:Calibri; color:windowtext;} span.EmailStyle18 {mso-style-type:personal-reply; font-family:Arial; color:navy;} @page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </style> <!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapedefaults v:ext=3D"edit" spidmax=3D"1026" /> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit"> <o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" /> </o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--> </head> <body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vlink=3Dpurple> <div class=3DSection1> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Bill:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I Googled “thanks so = much” in parentheses and got 17 million hits. Then I added 1950 (randomly chosen date) and = looked at some newspaper archives where the phrase appeared. Here is<a href=3D"http://www.newspaperarchive.com/LandingPage.aspx?type=3Dglp&s= earch=3D%e2%80%9cthanks%20so%20much%e2%80%9d%201950&img=3D1726695"> one example from an Iowa newspaper in 1950</a>. Clearly, it’s not = a new expression.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Dick = Veit<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dteal face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size: 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:teal'>________________________________</sp= an></font><font color=3Dnavy><span style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal = style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><font size=3D2 color=3Dteal face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial; color:teal'>Richard Veit<br> Department of English<br> </span></font><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family: Arial'><ns0:PlaceType w:insAuthor=3D"UNCW" = w:insDate=3D"2008-01-22T16:26:00Z" w:endInsAuthor=3D"UNCW" = w:endInsDate=3D"2008-01-22T16:26:00Z"><st1:PlaceType w:st=3D"on"><font color=3Dteal><span = style=3D'color:teal'>University</span></font></st1:PlaceType></ns0:PlaceT= ype><font color=3Dteal><span style=3D'color:teal'> of </span></font><ns0:PlaceName w:insAuthor=3D"UNCW" w:insDate=3D"2008-01-22T16:26:00Z" = w:endInsAuthor=3D"UNCW" w:endInsDate=3D"2008-01-22T16:26:00Z"><st1:PlaceName w:st=3D"on"><font = color=3Dteal><span style=3D'color:teal'>North = Carolina</span></font></st1:PlaceName></ns0:PlaceName><font color=3Dteal><span style=3D'color:teal'> </span></font><ns0:City = w:insAuthor=3D"UNCW" w:insDate=3D"2008-01-22T16:26:00Z" w:endInsAuthor=3D"UNCW" w:endInsDate=3D"2008-01-22T16:26:00Z"><ns0:place w:insAuthor=3D"UNCW" w:insDate=3D"2008-01-22T16:26:00Z" w:endInsAuthor=3D"UNCW" w:endInsDate=3D"2008-01-22T16:26:00Z"><st1:City w:st=3D"on"><st1:place = w:st=3D"on"><font color=3Dteal><span = style=3D'color:teal'>Wilmington</span></font></st1:place></st1:City></ns0= :place></ns0:City></span></font><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font = size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman"'> <hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabindex=3D-1> </span></font></div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt; font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font = size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> = <st1:PersonName w:st=3D"on">Assembly for the Teaching of English = Grammar</st1:PersonName> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>On = Behalf Of </span></b>Spruiell, William C<br> <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, January = 22, 2008 3:39 PM<br> <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> = [log in to unmask]<br> <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Unresolved = comparative "so"</span></font><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New = Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New = Roman"'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p> </div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span = style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span = style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>Dear All:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span = style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span = style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>I’m trying to figure out whether my reactions to a particular construction = are based on my age (incipient geezerhood), or my native dialect (Inland Southern). It involves use of comparative “so” without = an accompanying “that” clause, roughly equivalent to “very”:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span = style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span = style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'> &nbs= p; A: “Thanks so much”<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span = style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'> &nbs= p; B: = “It was so hot.”<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span = style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span = style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>I hear (A) very frequently, but I don’t remember hearing it when I = was younger. I also hear expressions like (B) from my students, although not = nearly as frequently as (A), which has become a set expression. I can almost = make (B) work in my own speech, but only with a lot of emphasis on the = “so” and an emphatic drop at the end of the sentence, but this is not always = how my students use it. Somehow, I can’t manage (A) at all – any = attempt and I can tell it’s coming out as sarcasm (“Oh, now my = leg’s broken. Thanks SO much.”). <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span = style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span = style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>I’ve checked the American Dialect Society listserv archive, but I either used = the wrong search terms, or there hasn’t been much discussion of it. My attention was particularly drawn to it by a recent political robocall (I = live in <st1:State w:st=3D"on"><st1:place = w:st=3D"on">Michigan</st1:place></st1:State>) in which the candidate (who is older than I am) not only used (A), but = managed to sound natural while doing it. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span = style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span = style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>Thanks! <o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span = style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span = style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>Bill Spruiell<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span = style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>Dept. of English<o:p></o:p></span></font></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><st1:place w:st=3D"on"><st1:PlaceName = w:st=3D"on"><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span = style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>Central</span></font></st1:PlaceName> <st1:PlaceName w:st=3D"on">Michigan</st1:PlaceName> <st1:PlaceType = w:st=3D"on">University</st1:PlaceType></st1:place><o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DCalibri><span = style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p> </div> </body> </html> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web = interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" <p> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" <p> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ ------_=_NextPart_001_01C85D3D.DA1FE7AD-- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 16:58:37 -0500 From: "Spruiell, William C" <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Unresolved comparative "so" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C85D41.F2EFDC01 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dick, =20 This is by no means the first time that what I thought was an odd usage turned out to be the norm, or vice versa ("What do you mean 'might should' sounds funny?"). I wonder whether I can blame this one on dialect, or whether (instead) I've fallen into the old grammar pedant's trap of trying to foist my idiolect on the universe. =20 Thanks, er, muchly, =20 Bill Spruiell =20 =20 =20 From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Veit, Richard Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 4:29 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Unresolved comparative "so" =20 Bill: =20 I Googled "thanks so much" in parentheses and got 17 million hits. Then I added 1950 (randomly chosen date) and looked at some newspaper archives where the phrase appeared. Here is one example from an Iowa newspaper in 1950 <http://www.newspaperarchive.com/LandingPage.aspx?type=3Dglp&search=3D%e2= %80 %9cthanks%20so%20much%e2%80%9d%201950&img=3D1726695> . Clearly, it's not = a new expression. =20 Dick Veit ________________________________ Richard Veit Department of English University of North Carolina Wilmington ________________________________ From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Spruiell, William C Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2008 3:39 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Unresolved comparative "so" =20 Dear All: =20 I'm trying to figure out whether my reactions to a particular construction are based on my age (incipient geezerhood), or my native dialect (Inland Southern). It involves use of comparative "so" without an accompanying "that" clause, roughly equivalent to "very": =20 A: "Thanks so much" B: "It was so hot." =20 I hear (A) very frequently, but I don't remember hearing it when I was younger. I also hear expressions like (B) from my students, although not nearly as frequently as (A), which has become a set expression. I can almost make (B) work in my own speech, but only with a lot of emphasis on the "so" and an emphatic drop at the end of the sentence, but this is not always how my students use it. Somehow, I can't manage (A) at all - any attempt and I can tell it's coming out as sarcasm ("Oh, now my leg's broken. Thanks SO much.").=20 =20 I've checked the American Dialect Society listserv archive, but I either used the wrong search terms, or there hasn't been much discussion of it. My attention was particularly drawn to it by a recent political robocall (I live in Michigan) in which the candidate (who is older than I am) not only used (A), but managed to sound natural while doing it.=20 =20 Thanks!=20 =20 Bill Spruiell Dept. of English Central Michigan University =20 To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list"=20 Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list"=20 Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ ------_=_NextPart_001_01C85D41.F2EFDC01 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html xmlns:v=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" = xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" = xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" = xmlns:m=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" = xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40" xmlns:ns0=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"> <head> <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; = charset=3Dus-ascii"> <meta name=3DGenerator content=3D"Microsoft Word 12 (filtered medium)"> <!--[if !mso]> <style> v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);} </style> <![endif]--> <style> <!-- /* Font Definitions */ @font-face {font-family:Calibri; panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} @font-face {font-family:Tahoma; panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;} /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";} a:link, span.MsoHyperlink {mso-style-priority:99; color:blue; text-decoration:underline;} a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed {mso-style-priority:99; color:purple; text-decoration:underline;} p {mso-style-priority:99; mso-margin-top-alt:auto; margin-right:0in; mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto; margin-left:0in; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";} span.EmailStyle17 {mso-style-type:personal; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:windowtext;} span.EmailStyle18 {mso-style-type:personal; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:navy;} span.EmailStyle20 {mso-style-type:personal-reply; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D;} span.msoIns {mso-style-type:export-only; mso-style-name:""; text-decoration:underline; color:teal;} .MsoChpDefault {mso-style-type:export-only; font-size:10.0pt;} @page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </style> <!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapedefaults v:ext=3D"edit" spidmax=3D"1026" /> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit"> <o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" /> </o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--> </head> <body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vlink=3Dpurple> <div class=3DSection1> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Dick,<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>This is by no means = the first time that what I thought was an odd usage turned out to be the norm, or = vice versa (“What do you mean ‘might should’ sounds = funny?”). I wonder whether I can blame this one on dialect, or whether (instead) I’ve fallen = into the old grammar pedant’s trap of trying to foist my idiolect on the = universe.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Thanks, er, = muchly,<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Bill = Spruiell<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <div> <div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt = 0in 0in 0in'> <p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>= </b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Assembly = for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:[log in to unmask]] <b>On = Behalf Of </b>Veit, Richard<br> <b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, January 22, 2008 4:29 PM<br> <b>To:</b> [log in to unmask]<br> <b>Subject:</b> Re: Unresolved comparative = "so"<o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> </div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:navy'>Bill:<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:navy'>I Googled “thanks so much” in parentheses and = got 17 million hits. Then I added 1950 (randomly chosen date) and looked at some newspaper = archives where the phrase appeared. Here is<a href=3D"http://www.newspaperarchive.com/LandingPage.aspx?type=3Dglp&s= earch=3D%e2%80%9cthanks%20so%20much%e2%80%9d%201950&img=3D1726695"> one example from an Iowa newspaper in 1950</a>. Clearly, it’s not = a new expression.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:navy'>Dick Veit<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:teal'>________________________________</span><span = style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal = style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:teal'>Ri= chard Veit<br> Department of English<br> </span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New = Roman","serif"'><ns0:PlaceType w:insAuthor=3D"UNCW" w:insDate=3D"2008-01-22T16:26:00Z" = w:endInsAuthor=3D"UNCW" w:endInsDate=3D"2008-01-22T16:26:00Z"><span = style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:teal'>University</span><span class=3DmsoIns><ins = cite=3D"mailto:UNCW" datetime=3D"2008-01-22T16:26"></ns0:PlaceType></ins></span></span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:teal'> = of </span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New = Roman","serif"'><ns0:PlaceName w:insAuthor=3D"UNCW" w:insDate=3D"2008-01-22T16:26:00Z" = w:endInsAuthor=3D"UNCW" w:endInsDate=3D"2008-01-22T16:26:00Z"><span = style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:teal'>North Carolina</span><span class=3DmsoIns><ins = cite=3D"mailto:UNCW" datetime=3D"2008-01-22T16:26"></ns0:PlaceName></ins></span></span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:teal'> = </span><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New = Roman","serif"'><ns0:City w:insAuthor=3D"UNCW" w:insDate=3D"2008-01-22T16:26:00Z" = w:endInsAuthor=3D"UNCW" w:endInsDate=3D"2008-01-22T16:26:00Z"><ns0:place w:insAuthor=3D"UNCW" w:insDate=3D"2008-01-22T16:26:00Z" w:endInsAuthor=3D"UNCW" w:endInsDate=3D"2008-01-22T16:26:00Z"><span = style=3D'font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:teal'>Wilmington</span><span class=3DmsoIns><ins = cite=3D"mailto:UNCW" = datetime=3D"2008-01-22T16:26"></ns0:place></ins></span></ns0:City></span>= <o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"'> <hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter> </span></div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>= </b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Assembly = for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:[log in to unmask]] <b>On = Behalf Of </b>Spruiell, William C<br> <b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, January 22, 2008 3:39 PM<br> <b>To:</b> [log in to unmask]<br> <b>Subject:</b> Unresolved comparative "so"</span><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New = Roman","serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal>Dear All:<o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal>I’m trying to figure out whether my reactions = to a particular construction are based on my age (incipient geezerhood), or my native = dialect (Inland Southern). It involves use of comparative “so” = without an accompanying “that” clause, roughly equivalent to = “very”:<o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p> <p = class=3DMsoNormal> &= nbsp; A: = “Thanks so much”<o:p></o:p></p> <p = class=3DMsoNormal> &= nbsp; B: = “It was so hot.”<o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal>I hear (A) very frequently, but I don’t = remember hearing it when I was younger. I also hear expressions like (B) from my students, = although not nearly as frequently as (A), which has become a set expression. I = can almost make (B) work in my own speech, but only with a lot of emphasis = on the “so” and an emphatic drop at the end of the sentence, but = this is not always how my students use it. Somehow, I can’t manage (A) at all – = any attempt and I can tell it’s coming out as sarcasm (“Oh, now my leg’s = broken. Thanks SO much.”). <o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal>I’ve checked the American Dialect Society = listserv archive, but I either used the wrong search terms, or there hasn’t been = much discussion of it. My attention was particularly drawn to it by a recent political = robocall (I live in Michigan) in which the candidate (who is older than I am) not = only used (A), but managed to sound natural while doing it. <o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal>Thanks! <o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal>Bill Spruiell<o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal>Dept. of English<o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal>Central Michigan University<o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times = New Roman","serif"'>To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface = at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or = leave the list" <o:p></o:p></span></p> <p>Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ To join or leave this = LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or = leave the list" <o:p></o:p></p> <p>Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/<o:p></o:p></p> </div> </body> </html> To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" <p> Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ ------_=_NextPart_001_01C85D41.F2EFDC01-- ------------------------------ End of ATEG Digest - 20 Jan 2008 to 22 Jan 2008 (#2008-14) ********************************************************** To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/