It's not just the British who muddy the waters for laypeople
trying to get a handle on what is considered "correct" punctuation. I
am training later this month for a group that adheres to a style manual very
widely revered in the business world. It was one I did not know well, so I have
been making my way through it in order to prepare for the training. I am eager
to write to the author and find out why his style book seems to advocate the
following, contrary to Chicago, MLA, and APA
(just to name the ones I am most familiar with):
·
It advocates putting a comma in
front of coordinating conjunctions but repeatedly lists only and, but,
or, and nor as the coordinating conjunctions, omitting
for, so, and yet.
·
It advocates the use of a colon after
a sentence fragment that introduces a vertical list.
·
With singular words ending in “s,”
this style book tells readers *sometimes*
to add the additional “s” after the apostrophe and *sometimes* not to do so--and then goes on
to claim that the choice of whether to add the “s” or not rests on
the *completely subjective* test
of whether or not the particular reader/writer pronounces the additional
syllable!! Now there is a rule that drives the layperson CRAZY.
The business writing textbook that I have used to
teach a business writing class at Columbia College reflects this “rule”
for how to handle the possessive case of singular nouns ending in “s,”
further confusing students. I am further baffled as to why a business writing
textbook author would choose to reflect this particular style book on this
issue when it runs counter to so many other very reputable style guides.
Of course, we all know that many of the so-called rules
are arbitrary, and we also understand that style books often differ for good reasons
that have to do with the disciplines they represent. But it is very frustrating
to explain to college students (and to working adults when I train in the
corporate world) why one lone—but widely respected—style book would
choose to be so out of step with so many others.
Thanks for letting me vent!
Nancy L. Tuten, PhD
Professor of English
Director of the Writing-across-the-Curriculum Program
803-786-3706
-----Original Message-----
From:
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2008 7:21 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Commas in compound sentences
Just to complicate the talk (after all
these votes for simplicity),
British practice differs from American on this one.
They don't ask for
commas here (before the conjunction linking compound
sentences) or
before the final element in a series (with
"and" or "or".) >
What you would hope for, I think,
is consistency, not just a sporadic
sprinkling. If the comma is included or left out
DELIBERATELY and
consistently, then I don't think we should command
otherwise.
Craig
I heartily agree with you, Linda! I think it is best
to keep simple
> rules simple. When you start allowing choices
when the rules are meant
> to be clear, your attempts at teaching get
confusing. Just because it
> is in print does not mean it is correct.
You would not believe how many
> books I have come across that confuse
"then" and "than." My students
> delight in finding printed errors in books and
newspapers.
> Barbara McLay
> ________________________________
>
> From:
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of
Linda Comerford
> Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2008 4:38 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Commas in compound sentences
>
>
> Much to my surprise, the corporate training I've
done for almost 20
> years now has often focused on grammar (written
and oral) and
> punctuation. The adults I meet in my
workshops are searching for as
> many simple, close-to-almost-always rules they
can follow when writing
> and editing.
>
> One of the most typical questions I receive is
the one you've just
> indicated. You would not believe the sighs
of relief I hear around the
> room when I share this simple rule:
>
> If you have two complete thoughts, always use a
comma before the FANBOYS
> (for, and, nor, but, or, yet, so). If not,
don't. I then illustrate
> with examples like these:
>
> Linda teaches professional writing skills, and
she enjoys working with
> great groups like you.
> Linda teaches professional writing skills and
enjoys working with great
> groups like you.
>
> They grasp that easily and are so relieved to
have a simple rule
> (without accompanying cluttering exceptions) they
can use and share with
> others.
>
> This rule has never failed me or one of my
participants. I hope it
> helps you too.
>
> Linda Comerford
> www.comerfordconsulting.com
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> From:
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of
Spruiell, William C
> Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2008 4:08 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Commas in compound sentences
>
>
>
> I tell my (college) students that it's one of
those rules that they need
> to apply in formal academic writing, but can take
less seriously in
> other styles. Frankly, I have to admit that I
tell them this mainly
> because I think other teachers / editors enforce
it, not because I think
> it's a particularly valuable rule. One
difficulty, though: telling
> students they need to use it in formal writing
doesn't work very well if
> they've never had any exposure to the independent
/ dependent clause
> distinction, so even if we don't present the rule
until late high school
> or early college, the groundwork for it needs to
be in place already.
>
>
>
> I'm not sure of its history, but I suspect
it's one of those many, many
> cases that started out as a helpful suggestion
about warding off
> ambiguity and ended up being a rigid requirement.
>
>
>
> Bill Spruiell
>
> Dept. of English
>
>
>
>
>
> From:
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of
Michael Kischner
> Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2008 2:32 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Commas in compound sentences
>
>
>
> I'm wondering how many people are still teaching
that placing a comma
> before a coordinating conjunction in a compound
sentence is the rule and
> omitting the comma is the exception? I have
been reading through mostly
> fiction books for elementary and middle school readers,
and in those
> books it is certainly the other way around.
So in teaching kids at
> those levels to use the comma, we are up against
most of what they see
> in print.
>
> Last night, I made up some compound sentences to
use in a workshop for
> elementary and middle school teachers. I
inserted the comma before each
> coordinating conjunction. Then I read most
of a delightful book,
> Clarice Bean Spells Trouble by Lauren
Child. It is full of sentences
> like this: "Grandad has actually got manners
but he doesn't use them
> that much anymore and he hasn't let the dog see
them, which is why
> Cement is utterly mannerless." This
morning, when I returned to my
> carefully made-up sentences, the commas looked
like clutter: "Matthew
> wanted to play soccer, but the doctor said he
should rest his injured
> leg."
>
> I know that fiction narrated in the first person
is the likeliest place
> to find compound sentences without commas.
But, though I haven't
> searched methodically, I think I have noticed
them all over the place,
> in both fiction and nonfiction for both younger
and older readers.
>
> I wonder whether the
comma-before-the-conjunction "rule" has become one
> of those pedagogic oversimplifications of reality
we sometimes resort to
> in order to give learners something clear and
secure to grasp until
> they're ready for more complexity. Whether
such oversimplifications are
> effective or justified is a whole other
question. What I think I'd
> prefer is a better rule.
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