I've looked at various guides and handbooks over the years on this issue. What I find telling is that there is no widely-agreed name we give to the error that results (1) when a comma is left out in a compound sentence or (2) when a comma is inserted needlessly in what only LOOKS like a compound sentence but is really just a compound verb. The fact that we lack a name for these semi-related problems indicates the errors are not so serious, not compared to 'Those Errors Which We Elect to Name' (e.g., comma splice). These nameless errors are some of the most common I see in my college students' writing--common, but not so serious as other potential problems. That being said, I think the comma in a compound sentence is useful, for it cues the reader where a different 'idea' (subject & verb) ends and where another related idea begins. Often, the comma is not the only cue, yet I find it a useful signal most of the time. In creative writing, these commas are particularly expendable for the reasons others have already pointed out--especially when it comes to dialogue and intentional pauses. Larry ____________________________ Larry Beason, Associate Professor Director of Composition University of South Alabama Mobile, AL 36688-0002 251-460-7861 >>> "Spruiell, William C" <[log in to unmask]> 01/10/08 3:08 PM >>> I tell my (college) students that it's one of those rules that they need to apply in formal academic writing, but can take less seriously in other styles. Frankly, I have to admit that I tell them this mainly because I think other teachers / editors enforce it, not because I think it's a particularly valuable rule. One difficulty, though: telling students they need to use it in formal writing doesn't work very well if they've never had any exposure to the independent / dependent clause distinction, so even if we don't present the rule until late high school or early college, the groundwork for it needs to be in place already. I'm not sure of its history, but I suspect it's one of those many, many cases that started out as a helpful suggestion about warding off ambiguity and ended up being a rigid requirement. Bill Spruiell Dept. of English Central Michigan University From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Michael Kischner Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2008 2:32 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Commas in compound sentences I'm wondering how many people are still teaching that placing a comma before a coordinating conjunction in a compound sentence is the rule and omitting the comma is the exception? I have been reading through mostly fiction books for elementary and middle school readers, and in those books it is certainly the other way around. So in teaching kids at those levels to use the comma, we are up against most of what they see in print. Last night, I made up some compound sentences to use in a workshop for elementary and middle school teachers. I inserted the comma before each coordinating conjunction. Then I read most of a delightful book, Clarice Bean Spells Trouble by Lauren Child. It is full of sentences like this: "Grandad has actually got manners but he doesn't use them that much anymore and he hasn't let the dog see them, which is why Cement is utterly mannerless." This morning, when I returned to my carefully made-up sentences, the commas looked like clutter: "Matthew wanted to play soccer, but the doctor said he should rest his injured leg." I know that fiction narrated in the first person is the likeliest place to find compound sentences without commas. But, though I haven't searched methodically, I think I have noticed them all over the place, in both fiction and nonfiction for both younger and older readers. I wonder whether the comma-before-the-conjunction "rule" has become one of those pedagogic oversimplifications of reality we sometimes resort to in order to give learners something clear and secure to grasp until they're ready for more complexity. Whether such oversimplifications are effective or justified is a whole other question. What I think I'd prefer is a better rule. To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/ To join or leave this LISTSERV list, please visit the list's web interface at: http://listserv.muohio.edu/archives/ateg.html and select "Join or leave the list" Visit ATEG's web site at http://ateg.org/