I heartily agree with you, Linda! I think it is best to keep simple
rules simple. When you start allowing choices when the rules are meant
to be clear, your attempts at teaching get confusing. Just because it
is in print does not mean it is correct. You would not believe how many
books I have come across that confuse "then" and "than." My students
delight in finding printed errors in books and newspapers.
Barbara McLay
________________________________
From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Linda Comerford
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2008 4:38 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Commas in compound sentences
Much to my surprise, the corporate training I've done for almost 20
years now has often focused on grammar (written and oral) and
punctuation. The adults I meet in my workshops are searching for as
many simple, close-to-almost-always rules they can follow when writing
and editing.
One of the most typical questions I receive is the one you've just
indicated. You would not believe the sighs of relief I hear around the
room when I share this simple rule:
If you have two complete thoughts, always use a comma before the FANBOYS
(for, and, nor, but, or, yet, so). If not, don't. I then illustrate
with examples like these:
Linda teaches professional writing skills, and she enjoys working with
great groups like you.
Linda teaches professional writing skills and enjoys working with great
groups like you.
They grasp that easily and are so relieved to have a simple rule
(without accompanying cluttering exceptions) they can use and share with
others.
This rule has never failed me or one of my participants. I hope it
helps you too.
Linda Comerford
www.comerfordconsulting.com
________________________________
From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Spruiell, William C
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2008 4:08 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Commas in compound sentences
I tell my (college) students that it's one of those rules that they need
to apply in formal academic writing, but can take less seriously in
other styles. Frankly, I have to admit that I tell them this mainly
because I think other teachers / editors enforce it, not because I think
it's a particularly valuable rule. One difficulty, though: telling
students they need to use it in formal writing doesn't work very well if
they've never had any exposure to the independent / dependent clause
distinction, so even if we don't present the rule until late high school
or early college, the groundwork for it needs to be in place already.
I'm not sure of its history, but I suspect it's one of those many, many
cases that started out as a helpful suggestion about warding off
ambiguity and ended up being a rigid requirement.
Bill Spruiell
Dept. of English
Central Michigan University
From: Assembly for the Teaching of English Grammar
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Michael Kischner
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2008 2:32 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Commas in compound sentences
I'm wondering how many people are still teaching that placing a comma
before a coordinating conjunction in a compound sentence is the rule and
omitting the comma is the exception? I have been reading through mostly
fiction books for elementary and middle school readers, and in those
books it is certainly the other way around. So in teaching kids at
those levels to use the comma, we are up against most of what they see
in print.
Last night, I made up some compound sentences to use in a workshop for
elementary and middle school teachers. I inserted the comma before each
coordinating conjunction. Then I read most of a delightful book,
Clarice Bean Spells Trouble by Lauren Child. It is full of sentences
like this: "Grandad has actually got manners but he doesn't use them
that much anymore and he hasn't let the dog see them, which is why
Cement is utterly mannerless." This morning, when I returned to my
carefully made-up sentences, the commas looked like clutter: "Matthew
wanted to play soccer, but the doctor said he should rest his injured
leg."
I know that fiction narrated in the first person is the likeliest place
to find compound sentences without commas. But, though I haven't
searched methodically, I think I have noticed them all over the place,
in both fiction and nonfiction for both younger and older readers.
I wonder whether the comma-before-the-conjunction "rule" has become one
of those pedagogic oversimplifications of reality we sometimes resort to
in order to give learners something clear and secure to grasp until
they're ready for more complexity. Whether such oversimplifications are
effective or justified is a whole other question. What I think I'd
prefer is a better rule.
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