Perhaps we can turn the recent thread in another direction!
There might be better choices for Brad to read than ES&L. An
interesting review of Truss’s book appeared in _The New Yorker_. It is available at http://www.newyorker.com/archive/2004/06/28/040628crbo_books1.
Here is an excerpt:
*********
"I am not a grammarian,” Truss says. No quarrel there.
Although she has dug up information about things like the history of the colon,
Truss is so uninterested in the actual rules of punctuation that she even names
the ones she flouts—for example, the rule that semicolons cannot be used
to set off dependent clauses. (Unless you are using it to disambiguate items in
a list, a semicolon should be used only between independent clauses—that
is, clauses that can stand as complete sentences on their own.) That is the
rule, she explains, but she violates it frequently. She thinks this makes her
sound like Virginia Woolf. And she admits that her editors are continually
removing the commas that she tends to place before conjunctions.
Why would
a person who is not just vague about the rules but disinclined to follow them
bother to produce a guide to punctuation?
***********
How about Patricia O’Conner’s _Woe is I_? It is also humorous and fun to read.
Nancy L. Tuten, PhD
Professor of English
Director of the Writing-across-the-Curriculum Program
803-786-3706
From: Assembly
for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of McLay, Barbara
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008
12:54 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Brad's written
threats
If you don't stop acting
like this, I'm going to have to separate you two! Gram, please do stop
being so "snotty." Brad, please do go take a grammar class, or else
get a book and study it on your own. Eats Shoots and Leaves is
actually enjoyable to read. Play nice, please!
Barbara
McLay, M.A.
Instructor, Student Learning Services
SVC 2124
Tampa
Phone: (813) 974-9303
Fax: (813) 974-5089
Webpage: www.usf.edu/reading
From: Assembly
for the Teaching of English Grammar [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Gram Marian
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008
12:25 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Brad's written
threats
If I'm not mistaken, your last statement constitutes a
threat. That sort of thing is not normally tolerated on listservs. You've just
been offically upgraded from "lunatic" status to "volatile
and potentially dangerous psychopath." Congratulations.
Brad Johnston
<[log in to unmask]> wrote:
%
( 16 )
They are amazed. They never heard of this song.
( 82
) They are amazed. They have never heard of
this song.
(
6 ) They were amazed. They never heard
of this song.
( 93 )
They were amazed. They had never heard of this
song.
( 45
) John is upset because his application was turned down.
( 55 )
John is upset because his application has been
turned down.
( 37 )
John was upset because his application was turned down.
( 64 )
John was upset because his application had been turned
down.
Brad's conclusions:
1.) Damned
interesting because of the diversity of answers to uncomplicated examples. They
are short, unambiguous, and probably constitute the simplest quiz any of
us have seen since the 4th grade, yet look at how much disagreement there is
among professional grammarians, including this morning's complaint from Herb.
2.) Look at the
four sentences about John. We are 45-55 and 37-64. With that much
disagreement among professionals, is it any wonder that students are confused?
I think we need to consider carefully what this demonstrates.
3.) In the set on
top, the 82 will want to explain to the 16 why the straightforward
"they never heard" is less effective than to say, "they
have never heard". I need to know, too.
4.) You wouldn't
let me continue long enough to get definition on what is demonstrated
next. The 82 (with the help of 11 of the 16) jumped to the conclusion that the
past perfect is the past of the present perfect. It can be demonstrated why
this is not true but we have all heard it so often that we just feel in our
bones that 'had' belongs in front of "never heard".
5.) The same
can be said of John 55 going for John 64. Once they decided that his
application "has been turned down" instead of the straightforward
"was turned down", it is an easy leap to John 64 (with the help
of 9 from John 45) to say ... well, you see what it says in John 64.
6.) Convoluted
theories and arcane presumptions aside, 45 and 37 have it right: "is and
was" and "was and was" don't need any help. They work well just
as they are.
7.) So, 82 and 55,
please tell us why you want to use the present perfect. Then tell us why you
jumped to 93 and 64. Just because it sounds right? Stand on any street
corner and listen. That's what you'll hear. (Is that too tough? O.K.,
strike that last comment starting with "Stand on any corner". I
withdraw that, without prejudice I hope.)
8.) Back to
you. I'm going to ponder #8 for a time.
.brad.14feb08.
Hey, Gram, is this
interesting and constructive enough for you? You better duck because rocks
and bottles are going to be flying, some of them at you, just for being so
snotty.
This list is a forum for people who are actually
interested in learning about grammar and language, not a dumping site for the
ravings of an apparent lunatic.
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